"Thou shalt not kill" and "The Crusades"

[Call911Quick]

Ok I see a lot of pple goin:

OMGZORZ CHRISTIEN CRUSADE KILL PPLE ROFL GOD TELL DEM NOT TO KILL DEY KILL ROFL CHRISTIEN GHEY!!!

First of all, the commandment states:

"Thou shalt not MURDER."

The definition of kill is: to deprive of life in any manner; cause the death of; slay

The definition of MURDER is: the killing of another human being under conditions specifically covered in law. In the U.S., special statutory definitions include murder committed with malice aforethought, characterized by deliberation or premeditation or occurring during the commission of another serious crime, as robbery or arson (first-degree murder), and murder by intent but without deliberation or premeditation (second-degree murder)

For those of you with sub-dual-digit-IQ's, let me spell this out for you.

Kill =/= Murder.

If you're painting a wall, and your painting bucket accidentally drops and KILLS somebody, do you become a MURDERER? No, it was an accident. This is not sinning, and it is in fact OK because you did not have the aforementioned "malice aforethought".

MURDER is "characterized by deliberation or premeditation or occurring during the commission of another serious crime". Basically, you're breaking the law, and you kill someone with MALICIOUS INTENT. Notice I did NOT say "on purpose". Self-defense kill is not MALICIOUS INTENT nor is it murder.

God said don't murder. He didn't say don't kill.


Now, I'm not saying the crusades was a good thing. It was bad. Horrible. Wrong. Delusional. Caused by zealous religious men, just like the Pharisees who had Jesus crucified. I just wanted to clear up this whole "no killing" thing.

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As a side note, if you have any other arguments against Christianity, I'd love to debate that. I'm not attempting to prove Christianity RIGHT, I just want get rid of some of the bad connotations to the word "Christianity".

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To the Christians. We are NOT to "forcefully" in any way try to convert anybody. Hell, we don't even have to TELL people about it. The BEST way to actually make someone interested in God is by EXAMPLE and your ACTIONS. Christians are meant to be Christ-like, meaning in that we have to be different that what a "normal" person would do. When someone flames you, reply in an orderly and organized yet non-agressive manner. At school, be nice to the kid who sits alone at lunch. At a party, refuse to smoke. Eventually, people will say,

"Hey, look at that kid. He's Christian. Has he done anything bad around here?"

"Why, no. I tried to beat him up one day, he didn't even try to fight back, he just ran away. He's a coward."

"But did he tell other people or try to get back at you?"

"No..."

This is what the Bible says should happen. Actions speak louder than words. This is the IDEAL Christian. I am in no way near being this "good" a person, but we all must try.

Call us delusional for being nice, we'll take it. Call us stupid for letting others take advantage of us, we'll take it. Eventually you'll notice that if everyone in the world were Christian, even if there was no God, the world would be a MUCH better place.

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This is basically our beliefs and philosophies. If you must slander certain hypocritical Christians, by all means, you are free to speak. However, please, leave the religion itself alone.

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Proving "love". Love can be so called "hinted at". You can measure and recieve a scalar amount of "proximity" or "brain activity at the mention of a certain person's name". This is all evidence. Maybe I'm just horny and like to stick around a girl alot, and when I hear her name I start gettin all ansty. I don't love her; I'm just horny. See? Love can not be fully "proven".

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So to sum up, I will re-write my plea:

Please, please, please, leave the religion alone. Don't make generalizations based on your encounters with one, two, or even twenty hypocritical Christians. Maybe you've met REAL Christians, it's just that they didn't make such a lasting impression on you. You can say "This Christian the other day took a gun out and shot a cashier to get his money." Does this mean all Christians will rob 7-11's? No. And I can't say "This aethist robbed a bank. All aethists rob banks."

[Admiral Awesome (115 votes)]

No more religion threads please.

[Mouren]

This does not make it O.K. to kill and i'm 100% that killing and murdering were implied in the commandment.

Commandments are just as bad as amendments because they limit such a small amount of infractions/provide a small amount of freedoms.

People have infinite freedoms. The amendments limited what freedoms the government could not take away, however, any freedom not listed is fair-play for the government to suspend. If at all possible, a USA without amendmends could potentially be more free than one with a Bill of Rights. Not going to discuss this because its off topic.

Back to my example. The commandments are a pretty terrible way of setting rules. It almost implies that anything outside the commandments is allowed such as what you said (killing.) If people were raised in a healthy foundation with a strong sense of right and wrong, commandments would be pointless, but so far they only allow people to bypass OBVIOUS wrongs because they are not in the commandments.

[Call911Quick]

No more religion threads please.

I'll do that when people stop flaming Christianity.

[Mouren]

No more religion threads please.

2) No spamming

At all. None. If you feel the unquenchable desire to post something useless, go post it elsewhere. This forum is here for a purpose, and spamming it is disrespectful to those who are here to enjoy it. Expect the same punishments as any other offense for intentionally spamming here.

[Odin5]

I'll do that when people stop flaming Christianity.

Noone cares about your religion as an individual, you can't prove yourself right, and they can't prove themselves right. Your argument is basically like arguing God Vs No God

[Admiral Awesome (115 votes)]

2) No spamming

At all. None. If you feel the unquenchable desire to post something useless, go post it elsewhere. This forum is here for a purpose, and spamming it is disrespectful to those who are here to enjoy it. Expect the same punishments as any other offense for intentionally spamming here.

No, seriously, we have ENOUGH of these threads. It's time to add some lime to the coconut we call the Serious Discussion.

[sillythewilly]

Yah, I'm sick of seeing these threads. It's pointless because no one is going to convert their views just by reading your comments ... not with the lame flames I generally see in these kinds of topics.

But anyways,

I'd like to point out that the Ten Commandments were more of a test of futility by God, to show that it was impossible for man to stop sinning by himself. Human nature is inherently evil, and that's why we needed a Savior.

...

[LordShaft]

acctualy the commandments wern;t in english so stfu

plus whatever language it was in, thry prolly had the same word for murder and/or kill

and yes:

ROFL CHRISTIEN GHEY!!!

[Ghos7Soldier]

Ok if you "MURDER" them, then that's to "KILL" them.

....Oh SHI....

See what I just did?

Murder Definitions(Read 4 and 5):

1. Law. the killing of another human being under conditions specifically covered in law. In the U.S., special statutory definitions include murder committed with malice aforethought, characterized by deliberation or premeditation or occurring during the commission of another serious crime, as robbery or arson (first-degree murder), and murder by intent but without deliberation or premeditation (second-degree murder).
2. Slang. something extremely difficult or perilous: That final exam was murder!
3. a group or flock of crows.
–verb (used with object)
4. Law. to kill by an act constituting murder.
5. to kill or slaughter inhumanly or barbarously.
6. to spoil or mar by bad performance, representation, pronunciation, etc.: The tenor murdered the aria.
–verb (used without object)
7. to commit murder.
—Idioms8. get away with murder, Informal. to engage in a deplorable activity without incurring harm or punishment: The new baby-sitter lets the kids get away with murder.
9. murder will out, a secret will eventually be exposed.
10. yell or scream bloody murder, a. to scream loudly in pain, fear, etc.
b. to protest loudly and angrily: If I don't get a good raise I'm going to yell bloody murder.


Kill (Since 4 and 5 in the Definition of Muder included the word "Kill" then that must mean...):

1. to deprive of life in any manner; cause the death of; slay.
2. to destroy; do away with; extinguish: His response killed our hopes.
3. to destroy or neutralize the active qualities of: to kill an odor.
4. to spoil the effect of: His extra brushwork killed the painting.
5. to cause (time) to be consumed with seeming rapidity or with a minimum of boredom, esp. by engaging in some easy activity or amusement of passing interest: I had to kill three hours before plane time.
6. to spend (time) unprofitably: He killed ten good years on that job.
7. Informal. to overcome completely or with irresistible effect: That comedian kills me.
8. to muffle or deaden: This carpet kills the sound of footsteps.
9. Informal. to cause distress or discomfort to: These new shoes are killing me.
10. Informal. to tire completely; exhaust: The long hike killed us.
11. Informal. to consume completely: They killed a bottle of bourbon between them.
12. to cancel publication of (a word, paragraph, item, etc.), esp. after it has been set in type.
13. to defeat or veto (a legislative bill, etc.).
14. Electricity. to render (a circuit) dead.
15. to stop the operation of (machinery, engines, etc.): He killed the motor and the car stopped.
16. Tennis. to hit (a ball) with such force that its return is impossible.
17. Metallurgy. a. to deoxidize (steel) before teeming into an ingot mold.
b. to eliminate springiness from (wire or the like).
c. to cold-roll (sheet metal) after final heat treatment in order to eliminate distortion.

18. Ice Hockey. to prevent the opposing team from scoring in the course of (a penalty being served by a teammate or teammates).
–verb (used without object) 19. to inflict or cause death.
20. to commit murder.
21. to be killed.
22. to overcome completely; produce an irresistible effect: dressed to kill.
23. Slang. to feel a smarting pain, as from a minor accident; sting: I stubbed my little toe and that really kills.
–noun 24. the act of killing, esp. game: The hounds moved in for the kill.
25. an animal or animals killed.
26. a number or quantity killed.
27. an act or instance of hitting or destroying a target, esp. an enemy aircraft.
28. the target so hit or, esp., destroyed.
29. Sports. kill shot.
—Verb phrase30. kill off, a. to destroy completely; kill, esp. successively or indiscriminately: The invaders killed off all the inhabitants of the town.
b. Informal. to extinguish; eliminate: The bus ride every day kills off all of my energy.



Also, I could destroy any religion with a few words but this will start up an old old old old old old OLLDDDD argument that is pointless.

Also, Christianity isn't special religion that doesn't deserve any comments about it.

No, I have no religion, I'm not Athiest, And I'd rather not be called into some sort of "Group" of people.

[Jon88]

and i'm 100% that killing and murdering were implied in the commandment.

Numbers 35:15,16:

"These six cities shall be for refuge for the sons of Israel, and for the alien and for the sojourner among them; that anyone who kills a person unintentionally may flee there.

But if he struck him down with an iron object, so that he died, he is a murderer; the murderer shall surely be put to death."
So, unintentional killing is not to be put to death; while intentional killing is.

Exodus 21:12-14:

"He who strikes a man so that he dies shall surely be put to death.

But if he did not lie in wait for him, but God let him fall into his hand, then I will appoint you a place to which he may flee.

If, however, a man acts presumptuously toward his neighbor, so as to kill him craftily, you are to take him even from My altar, that he may die."

So again unintentional no execution, intentional execute. That last verse here makes an interesting statement... perhaps, some of the those people imprisoned in life should really be put to death; if this was the law that is being followed.

Deuteronomy 20:12-14:

"And if it will make no peace with thee, but will make war against thee, then thou shalt besiege it:

And when the LORD thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword:

But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which the LORD thy God hath given thee."

Killing in war seems to be permitted by the Bible.

However, in the case of Christianity; the only above I see that is still justified is 1)Unintentional 2)Self Defense which can be derived from the last one.

Commandments are just as bad as amendments because they limit such a small amount of infractions/provide a small amount of freedoms.

People have infinite freedoms.

My freedoms ends where yours begin. That is the point of such parameters. Anarchy will not work my friend.

[Felix_D]

there's a hidden rule, you're free to do whatever you want with heathens. so nokill does'nt apply to non christians.

[Mouren]

@Jon

This is offtopic, so I will breifly describe what I meant. It was my fault that I wrote freedoms and not liberties. A civil liberty is a right that cannot be infringed on by the government. When I said freedoms, I actually meant civil liberties (most people use these interchangeably), but there is a difference between the two.

The Bill of Rights says to us: You have only this many civil liberties, but any other potential liberties is subject to the will of the government. I am not promoting anarcy because it would never work. I am however saying that, our liberties are endless; instead of telling what we can do without being infringed, we should be told what we cannot do, because there are far more things we should be able to do, but are not available to us. For example, we have free speech, and the right to assembly. However, we also have the right as human beings to marry anyone and have an abortion if we want to. These subjects are NOT in the Bill of Rights and ARE being infringed upon by the government. I hope I made my point clear.

[†Knives]

[Xerid]

wow this is smart lol

[Jon88]

@Jon
This is offtopic, so I will breifly describe what I meant...

O, I see what you are saying. Then yes, I would have to agree; except for, the Bible clearly puts down scenarios were killing is not equivalent to murder.

YouTube - Rational Response Squad takes on Christians on ABC

God cannot be proven; therefore, he does not exists. What kind of bull crap logic is that. It destroys itself for in order for something to be considered 'truth' it needs to be bi conditional (math term).