Gladiator Styles Philosophy

[Khane]

Originally Posted by A_kool .

GLADIAtOR HAS BEEN DYING FOR TOO LONG, NO POINT IN TRYING TO MAKE IT GROW

I don't really believe that. It's attitudes like the ones our "top" players have and the fact that you can't even learn basic gladiator skills without dying over and over before you figure even basic stuff out.

If we don't even at least write a BASIC guide for newer players to gladiator, how COULD we expect to grow? We're dying because nobody ever tries to STOP it!

Sure, we have guides on "stalk" and maybe even tips on how to counter turtle, but there's no common base people to stand on! Do you want to know why so many weak players spam insta and juggle? Because that's what there are GUIDES on!

[eddy<3]

Originally Posted by Khane

I don't really believe that. It's attitudes like the ones our "top" players have and the fact that you can't even learn basic gladiator skills without dying over and over before you figure even basic stuff out.

If we don't even at least write a BASIC guide for newer players to gladiator, how COULD we expect to grow? We're dying because nobody ever tries to STOP it!

Sure, we have guides on "stalk" and maybe even tips on how to counter turtle, but there's no common base people to stand on! Do you want to know why so many weak players spam insta and juggle? Because that's what there are GUIDES on!

BEEN DyING SINCE IGUNZ CUZ PPL SUK MY DIK AND I CUM IN MOUTH AND THEY DIE CUZ CUM IS ACID

[Cerb3rus]

I've done more than enough to help the gladiator community grow. It's not my fault it didn't work. <.> Unfortunately, it's more fun to troll those who actually think they're having a good conversation, much more than it is trying to explain to a group of people my ideas in hopes that they grasp them. It has to be done in person.

Can't say I wasn't nice in person either. I've actually stayed a full hundred rounds with a lot of people where I kept their score in the single digits. Figured it would be nice to give practice, no? Whenever I was in game, I always took time to help and explain. When I try that here, people don't actually grasp the entire concept, maybe half of it at best. So there's no point in trying...

And even if I were to do that, what. We'd be making the community grow? Are you kidding me? I've been playing since 2005, nigruh. It's dead. Nothing we can do about it. ****, I EVEN TRIED CENTRALIZING GLADIATOR ON ONE SERVER. Good luck with watering a seed.

[Hotshot]

Originally Posted by Enshoku

That was only because I was in a bad mood at the time and you were on vent, easy to yell at.

u didnt yell at me lol u did better then that u kick me haha

[Khane]

Originally Posted by Cerb3rus

I've done more than enough to help the gladiator community grow. It's not my fault it didn't work. <.> Unfortunately, it's more fun to troll those who actually think they're having a good conversation, much more than it is trying to explain to a group of people my ideas in hopes that they grasp them. It has to be done in person.

Can't say I wasn't nice in person either. I've actually stayed a full hundred rounds with a lot of people where I kept their score in the single digits. Figured it would be nice to give practice, no? Whenever I was in game, I always took time to help and explain. When I try that here, people don't actually grasp the entire concept, maybe half of it at best. So there's no point in trying...

And even if I were to do that, what. We'd be making the community grow? Are you kidding me? I've been playing since 2005, nigruh. It's dead. Nothing we can do about it. ****, I EVEN TRIED CENTRALIZING GLADIATOR ON ONE SERVER. Good luck with watering a seed.

Have you ever thought that maybe you should of started with a more basic concept, rather than trying to teach people to stalk before they can even apply BASIC concepts correctly? It's disgusting the amount of people I've fought who claim to of been taught by you, even though they can't even distance correctly!

Of course, the kind of things you teach are useful and valid to advanced players and help them become good if they TRAIN, but that's not all there is to it. Here's an example:

I am a fencer. In our sport, whenever we have new people at the club, they go through AT LEAST a month in the beginner class where they learn footwork, scoring, rules, etc. In this month, we're not talking about setting up that wrist touch, or how to get around a parry. We're showing them how they need to have their arm out before their feet move in their attack. Why? Because if we don't, when they move into the intermediate classes they get completely crushed in practice, and then they stop coming.

You can't expect people to grasp the "whole" idea the first day you teach them. Gladiator is a complicated game. You need to ease the person into it. Show them how certain ideas stay true in gun and sword games, and a few of the biggest differences.

But most of all, keep it simple.

[eddy<3]

Originally Posted by Khane

Have you ever thought that maybe you should of started with a more basic concept, rather than trying to teach people to stalk before they can even apply BASIC concepts correctly? It's disgusting the amount of people I've fought who claim to of been taught by you, even though they can't even distance correctly!

Of course, the kind of things you teach are useful and valid to advanced players and help them become good if they TRAIN, but that's not all there is to it. Here's an example:

I am a fencer. In our sport, whenever we have new people at the club, they go through AT LEAST a month in the beginner class where they learn footwork, scoring, rules, etc. In this month, we're not talking about setting up that wrist touch, or how to get around a parry. We're showing them how they need to have their arm out before their feet move in their attack. Why? Because if we don't, when they move into the intermediate classes they get completely crushed in practice, and then they stop coming.

You can't expect people to grasp the "whole" idea the first day you teach them. Gladiator is a complicated game. You need to ease the person into it. Show them how certain ideas stay true in gun and sword games, and a few of the biggest differences.

But most of all, keep it simple.

but he does start out with basics if he has too, hes a good teacher, its just most people dont retain what they hear

[Khane]

Originally Posted by A_kool .

but he does start out with basics if he has too, hes a good teacher, its just most people dont retain what they hear

That's because they never get a chance to drill it. Actually practice with them, and let them win by applying the technique. Show them how it works. And then make them want more.

You're right. The majority won't get it. But the minority that does, you need to make them STAY.

[eddy<3]

Originally Posted by Khane

That's because they never get a chance to drill it. Actually practice with them, and let them win by applying the technique. Show them how it works. And then make them want more.

You're right. The majority won't get it. But the minority that does, you need to make them STAY.

ive done that with all my students

i think the majority can get it, but it needs to be in ooga ooga caveman terms for some people like teaching tip slash you could say "U ARE THE BUG SPRAY, THEY ARE THE BUG, TEACH THEM A LESSON GRASSHOPPER" but ya rite now its a minority thing

[Khane]

Originally Posted by A_kool .

ive done that with all my students

i think the majority can get it, but it needs to be in ooga ooga caveman terms for some people like teaching tip slash you could say "U ARE THE BUG SPRAY, THEY ARE THE BUG, TEACH THEM A LESSON GRASSHOPPER" but ya rite now its a minority thing

Which brings me to another point:

We only ever really teach students face to face. We have no real big guide up for the basics! At the moment, a person only has two real ways to learn the basics: Get taught, face to face, by one of us, or go in and die ALOT.

We can only reach so many people like this. We should write a guide detailing basic (and not advanced) gladiator tactics, such as distancing, a more complete guide to massives, some stuff about groundplay, BF patterns, some real info on turtle...

We CAN grow, we just need to approach it the right way. Growth has nothing to do with talking to players who can already PLAY. We need to find people new to the game, and show them how to find the community. We're not really "visible". We need something like Cerb's old stalk guide, but more targeted to newer players, and without the attitude.

We're not dead yet, as long as we have at least a small group of players. We can bring gladiator back.

[eddy<3]

im all for it if you are

if u want, add me on msn to discuss how to be written, screenshot examples ETC

[Enshoku]

pfft, what happened to the good ol' days of PANTLESS PRIDE, BF circle and boyans aggressive turtle? lmao.

[R3volution]

Originally Posted by An Amateur

I see. If the intent of this thread was to break away from the whole "k-style and d-style are the only styles" attitude then arn't you defeating yourself by simply redefining what a style is in gunz the same way people attempted to with d-stlye and k-style?

The whole argument against d-style and k-style being recognised as the only styles is that they are methods, you are just talking about methods in a broader way. Actual styles are wide and varried and the term can be used fairly loosely to apply to different ways of playing or doing anything else for that matter.

I echo some of what Enshoku said, and thats why I told you to search for "styles and you".

The point of this thread was to define what a style was from a logical and philosophical point of view, as well as develop from what basis one can justifiably say what "skillful" is. I find it sad that no one besides you even tried to read my post before trolling it and saying it is wrong. Especially Cerb3rus. I expected a bit more from him, though knowing him I guess that I shouldn't have.

That's pretty much what I wanted to say. I think the real problem with R3volution's approach here is how he decided that a person's PLAYSTYLE(not gunz style, such as K, D, etc.) can be broken down into a few core moves, and how if a move isn't used universally by all (good) players, then it doesn't constitute a part of that person's style.

Untrue. The essence of something is determined best by the comparison of two or more of what is considered to be items under the same category, and then deducing aspects of said category which are universal. Flipping is not universal. Thus it is not essential. Thus it can not be used to help define a style.

For those who wish to continue this conversation seriously, please read the original post before posting and making assumptions.

Originally Posted by Cerb3rus

REFER TO PIE CHART PLZ.

Good thread? This thread isn't "good". You know, for people being so interested in gladiator, it's a wonder they don't actually try to develop their skill instead of talking about it. Glad thread /fail. The reason I say that is because you guys are being very, very vague about it.. It would be like if you were talking about martial arts deflecting. And that's it! Just deflecting. Not any form of deflecting or anything like that. NOPE. JUST REGULAR OLD TURTLE. TOTALLY A STYLE.

Summary? pie chart ez

You have not read my post. Even as such you take it upon yourself to shun not only what you do not understand, but what you refuse to take it upon yourself to learn. Kindly either read my original post, or stop talking like you understand what it says.

[Cerb3rus]

@ Khane: Want a simple guide that includes everything? Look for Scuba. Want a complex guide which I've superceded already? Look for mine. Sorry, but guides just don't work anymore, it has to be in person, and I do practice with people. I give them lots of it! It doesn't change the fact that there are only going to be a few shining stars while the rest are dim bulbs.

@ Diamons: I've learned to not read your threads, because you make it a job to reword previous posts in a different way to seem like you're making a different point. You're not.

It's just like you. Why do you love to make pointless posts about gladiator history or explain styles and concepts like YOU HAVE ACTUALLY GRASPED THEM? Lawl.

As well, I can use you to prove my ponit to Khane. Remember when we faught a few months ago? I actually have no idea when, can't really remember, but uh. I stayed for a full hundred rounds for you, even though I didn't really want to or care. Simply put something on TV and bam. You got a hundred. Your mistake was not actually having a conversation about styles and concepts with me, we could have actually covered some ground. What happened is you learned nothing from the hundred, and every month, you crawl out from under your rock to post something so vague that you could probably make it out to be soemthing else. <.>

Not gonna write a wall of text here, so uh. Don't expect "more" from me when I've done enough, 'kay? Trolling is way more fun.

[Luarna]

Originally Posted by Cerb3rus

And even if I were to do that, what. We'd be making the community grow? Are you kidding me? I've been playing since 2005, nigruh. It's dead. Nothing we can do about it. ****, I EVEN TRIED CENTRALIZING GLADIATOR ON ONE SERVER. Good luck with watering a seed.

I've been thinking about ways of centralizing glad games in a server for a while, like the good old days in igunz where you could log into server 3 and choose from between 6 different bow game just in a free channel and not everyone was running around with single digit levels as most people seems to do nowadays. But everyone is too used to their lil piece of **** to move on. We should be able to conquer Match 1 easily lol

I agree that people should use whatever it works for them, even if they spam instas or they circle bf around all the map, but the sad part about the players that do those things is that most of them aren't choosing use those, it's just that they cannot do anything else, so after a while either you either eazy kill them or you get bored and/or pissed.

Khane, there are a lot of glad guides in these forums, some basic and some not. I don't think it's a matter of the complexity of the guides, I bet it's more newbies prefering to learn an insta skill that prefering to go through the long way and learn all what we, old players, believe to be the basics. Besides that, in my opinion, cerbie has always been a great teacher, and just not teaching juggling, stalking or *coughs* that parry thing

En, I still play without pants sometimes but I stopped yelling ^2PANTLESS PRIDE since there isn't noone left that remembers the reference . I remember Boyan with his proto-stalk style too

Anyway, I don't think glad community has died, I think it "died" as we knew it, just because people joins and quit and it has to change, so we either adapt to it and have fun, or try to redirect it to what it was, what is kinda hard.

The only hate-able things I find, are the damn games with 30 minutes per round that seem more chit chat rooms than a place where people is fighting and the losing of people who wants to duel each other in private rooms because they prefer the damn chit-chat grrr.

[Cerb3rus]

I agree about the infinite timers. People really don't seem to know what the point of a team gladiator is.. It isn't to have control for 1vs1's. It's to have TEAM. GLADIATOR. >.> So the rounds should be 3-5 minutes max. ;o Just bam. Pick a partner, go fight.

Honestly, if more people got into having ringers like me and Dylan used to, gladiator would be a whole lot more appealing to them.