New Sticky Question?

[NSman]

How about
A: Unless if you're trying to be in the top tier, it doesn't really matter. But if you are, Kstyle has a slight advantage.

[An Amateur]

Originally Posted by Nosedagger

A: In general, K-Style is easier to learn and get kills with than D-Style, though daggers also have their own unique advantages.

I'd say that would be better accepted. Assuming this is to aid newbies just starting to learn some advanced moves, maybe you should consider adding:

It is worthwhile experimenting with both to find out which you prefer.

[Mr.Lucifer]

Originally Posted by Nosedagger

I would prefer:



Essentially put it in more ambiguous terms (and describes D-Style more aptly), so it'll be more widely accepted.

Then how is K-style not superior, aside from personal preference?

Originally Posted by NSman

How about
A: Unless if you're trying to be in the top tier, it doesn't really matter. But if you are, Kstyle has a slight advantage.

I'd prefer to say that it is more than just a slight advantage. More a requirement.

[An Amateur]

Originally Posted by NSman

How about
A: Unless if you're trying to be in the top tier, it doesn't really matter. But if you are, Kstyle has a slight advantage.

I think your previous one was far better, this just seems unnecessary.

[Nosedagger]

Originally Posted by NSman

How about
A: Unless if you're trying to be in the top tier, it doesn't really matter. But if you are, Kstyle has a slight advantage.

But it does matter. I'm nowhere near top and I feel the differences quite plainly.

Originally Posted by An Amateur

maybe you should consider adding:

Yeah that's good.

Originally Posted by Mr.Lucifer

Then how is K-style not superior, aside from personal preference?

I implied that K-Style was superior generally. I said nothing of personal preference, and I just mentioned that they both have their ups.

lrn2weaseltalk

[NSman]

Nosedagger you're missing the point here.
We're trying to give people definitive answers based on the results of all the discussions that have been held so far. We need an answer that accurately conveys these points:
1. Kstyle is more practical than Dstyle because-
A. It has a couple advantages at top tier.
B. It is easier to learn.
2. People who use Dstyle do so at the expense of competitiveness and to have a little fun with the dagger's agility.

You know.....I actually think that's not a bad answer. I don't want any wishy-washy, beat-around-the-bush answers, there's got to be something definitive so people shut up about Kstyle and Dstyle and we can just tell them straight up what everyone's been saying for the past few years.

[An Amateur]

Originally Posted by NSman

Nosedagger you're missing the point here.
We're trying to give people definitive answers based on the results of all the discussions that have been held so far. We need an answer that accurately conveys these points:
1. Kstyle is more practical than Dstyle because-
A. It has a couple advantages at top tier.
B. It is easier to learn.
2. People who use Dstyle do so at the expense of competitiveness and to have a little fun with the dagger's agility.

You know.....I actually think that's not a bad answer. I don't want any wishy-washy, beat-around-the-bush answers, there's got to be something definitive so people shut up about Kstyle and Dstyle and we can just tell them straight up what everyone's been saying for the past few years.

I agee thats probably a better way to answer. Perhaps summorise the arguments in the "K-Style best..??" thread and outline that generally k-style is considered better overall. Sort of a table with the pros and con arguments.

Generally k-style is considered the better method at the moment. (Answered the question) However both styles have there own advantages and can be competitive.

(Then) Bellow are summorised some of the main arguments for each style:

(Arguments for K-style)

(Arguments for D-style)

I think that would answer the question simply. And by listing the main points and reasoning for each style it will satisfy most peoples desire to argue over the answer. It also gives you room to be ambiguous =P

[Nosedagger]

Originally Posted by NSman

Nosedagger you're missing the point here.
We're trying to give people definitive answers based on the results of all the discussions that have been held so far. We need an answer that accurately conveys these points:
1. Kstyle is more practical than Dstyle because-
A. It has a couple advantages at top tier.
B. It is easier to learn.
2. People who use Dstyle do so at the expense of competitiveness and to have a little fun with the dagger's agility.

You know.....I actually think that's not a bad answer. I don't want any wishy-washy, beat-around-the-bush answers, there's got to be something definitive so people shut up about Kstyle and Dstyle and we can just tell them straight up what everyone's been saying for the past few years.

It has a couple advantages at top tier.

K-Style's advantages aren't amplified at top-tier, more of D-Style's advantages pale out (lunges become even more situational, most serious players use elements while dagger elements suck, block taps lose effectiveness, etc). Just clarifying.

Okay, let me show you how your original answer was not definitive.

the one with the most potential is Kstyle.

Damage potential? Potential for development? What kind of potential?

and is slightly not as good as Kstyle.

How slight is slightly?




My answer, on the other hand, avoided putting across a view of what is "better" or "good" and gave facts(more or less proven): That D-Style has unique qualities(lunge bla bla bla), and that it's not as easy to learn(yoyo bla bla bla).

If I wanted a view, a nice general one like "K-Style is better" or even "more practical"(more practical for what task? all tasks? I doubt it) I'd have gone to ijji forums. They have no end to views there. One reason why I don't go there for my bloody information is not just because there's so much BS and idiots to sift through, but there are virtually no good clean facts. At GZF we kick the views into the SD and the info into the Stockpile, much less mix-up.

What do you do if you want to find out how good a style is? You go for the facts. I doubt anyone fakes replays, and when coupled with some respectable guides you can get a good picture, but even that is still subjective.

I don't believe in being too subjective and I'm nervous we'll fall into that hole. The perfect answer, would be a short and sweet guide, listing all the damn bloody advantages, concise, and a nice appendix at the end(guides and replays) so everything's more or less validated. Just drop the facts, nothing more. That's definite for you. People can make their own opinions.

But since I'm too lazy to make that dream Style introduction, we should settle for a mini-version. I'd still rather give them unvalidated facts than unvalidated views.

[Mr.Lucifer]

K-style has more potential in everything. Correct me if you find something D-style has more potential in. I can't think of anything.

[Misuzu]

Is it possible for a mod to change my vote? I realised a while ago that I should have chosen Yes [but with modifications].

[Malinion]

I think that the style you've worked on and how good you are at it tends to lead you to believe that it is the best style

[Malinion]

Lol I didn't get the poll question.

oh well

[Traumatize]

Originally Posted by Nosedagger

I would prefer:

A: In general, K-Style is easier to learn and get kills with than D-Style, though daggers also have their own unique advantages.


Essentially put it in more ambiguous terms (and describes D-Style more aptly), so it'll be more widely accepted.

if it was termed this way I would agree.

[NSman]

Originally Posted by Malinion

I think that the style you've worked on and how good you are at it tends to lead you to believe that it is the best style

I SAID NO ARGUING.
Your post is invalid and will be ignored in 3...2...1......

And yes, Nosedagger, my first few answers were pretty ambiguous because I fell into the trap of trying to please Kstylers and Dstylers rather than trying to convey the conclusions reached in the several Kstyle/Dstyle topics.

[Nosedagger]

Originally Posted by Mr.Lucifer

K-style has more potential in everything. Correct me if you find something D-style has more potential in. I can't think of anything.

Seems to be like you have a black/white point of view.

D-Style has some potential to grow in Kiedo's Jet Theory. I see no counterpart on the KStyle side.

D-Stylers have greater maneuverability. In the air, they can cancel off their dashes in quicker sucession. They can also go into and come out of aerial wallruns a bit faster. Quick Stick is at the least the fastest upward movement achievable, not counting elevator. E-Lunge is the fastest horizontal movement. This is my movement card.

Attack options: From a wallrun they can flow immediately into a yoyo.
Lunge moves(including Instas, 2-man Instas, Lunge off cliff, and Gattles) also gives dStylers a few situational cards.
Easy Juggles as well.
More control over direction changes means more control over Circling.

Since you didn't bother to define "potential", I assumed it was unique advantages(untapped or otherwise) you were looking for.

Originally Posted by 寓言故事

Is it possible for a mod to change my vote? I realised a while ago that I should have chosen Yes [but with modifications].

I'll let you do it, NSman. Your thread.

Originally Posted by NSman

And yes, Nosedagger, my first few answers were pretty ambiguous because I fell into the trap of trying to please Kstylers and Dstylers rather than trying to convey the conclusions reached in the several Kstyle/Dstyle topics.

Don't you see? We're going to have to please the majority(or at least the majority of the people with brains) somehow. The Style System has its left foot in the muddiness of the community's opinion. If we're going to put down anything even close to definite, we'll need word-of-mouth to spread it around and make it popular. Even if this is in-GZF we have to make it agreeable with most if not all the frontier people and guide writers (Kiedo, Scuba, Slap, etc.).

You have to be logical yet make some concessions to popular belief. I believe using facts rather than the staggering number of viewpoints are the most straightforward way. In a sense it's being objectively subjective, and its one ironic pain in the ass.