Isreal and Palestine

[Ailysa]

Originally Posted by death song

Israel is not as democratic as you think. For example, in the Negev desert 80,000 Bedouins who were never chased out of their homes (they have been there for 500 years) ought to be under Israeli law equal citizens. Israel wants to develop the land so they decided their villages are illegal. On that basis they deny these citizens of Israel education, health care, transportation, municipal trash services, drinking water, and electricity. Also they have no legal right to their homes so Israel can come in with bulldozers at any time and demolish them. Also, Israel now prevents the Bedouins from using their grazing lands (calling it state owned land) depriving them of their livelihood. If you are an Arab and you are a citizen of Israel you are unwanted and discriminated against. Israel only cares about Jews.

Please research before using biased newspaper articles as evidence!

Many Bedouins do not follow various Israeli laws and do not pay taxes. Therefore, if they do not pay taxes, why should they recieve all these free goods in return?

And any country can come and bulldoze someone's house if they want. I've seen many large Western countries such as America do it many times. The Israelis don't go bulldozing Bedouin houses; that's the point! They are a democratic country because they RESPECT the rights of their citizens.

And stop with this ignorance of presuming that the Bedouins and Arabs that live in Israel are discriminated against. The Bedouins are appreciated in Israel and have helped with transporting goods for many years. The Bedouins are actually the most respected in the army as they are the best fighters.

Israel DOES NOT only care about Jews. Yes, it is a Jewish state and yes, there are some rules/laws that are influenced by the religion. So if you don't want to follow those rules, you don't have to live in the country. But the thing is that Israel DOES NOT impose their religion on its citizens and DOES NOT force them to follow certain rules. As a Democracy, they offer - as I reinterate yet again - equal rights to ALL its citizens.

Originally Posted by manofsparrow

Don't forget about how much financial support they have.

Does that count for anything?

As I already said for all three times you've said that:

Originally Posted by Ailysa

And does the fact that Israeli missiles are more advanced than the Palestinian rockets count for anything? Of course not. The intent is. The Palestinian rockets are being fired with the intent to kill civillians. Israeli rockets are fired with the intent to attack terrorists.

Obviously there's a reason why they may be getting financial support.

Originally Posted by death song

Actually people in the US cry much more about the historical oppression of the Jews. Just compare the number of sad American films about the Holocaust with the number of sad films about ANY other oppressed people. Ask the average American who the most evil person of all time was and they say Hitler.

That is because the Holocaust was the most unprecedented and barbaric event that had ever happened in the history of mankind.

Desipte the sympathy that many people in the US carry, observe the number of anti-semetic jokes that have continued to be uttered. That is what initiated this hatred that people hold - not just for Jews - but other races or religions in the world. I just wish some people would learn from their past's mistakes and be more accepting and understanding to other races and religions.

[koolaid_g]

Well, I believe that being atheist allows me to see past the whole "This is OUR holy land so we're gonna walts in and take it from you." perspective. It was LEGALLY owned by the Palestines. But Jews came in one day and planted a flag and claimed it as theirs once again, and expected it to be generally accepted without rejection from the rightful citizens. And the only reason that the US hasn't intervined, is because it needed an ally in the middle east, and Isreal was a logical choice being newly established once again. The US has however showed some williness to find resolve. About 4 months back there was actually peace talks in DC to end the bloodshed. However the US failed to even INVITE major Palestinian leaders, because their main political group "HAMAS" has been deemed a terrorist organization by our dear old President. I think the entire idea of THOUSANDS of years of killing over "The Holy Land" is unavoidably RETARDED and I hope they both kill each other off eventually. We could use less religious fanatics in the world.

[manofsparrow]

Didn't the US support some of the other Middle Eastern leaders for oil?

[Mr.Lucifer]

Originally Posted by Ailysa

Many Bedouins do not follow various Israeli laws and do not pay taxes. Therefore, if they do not pay taxes, why should they recieve all these free goods in return?

HELLO THERE MISTER!? Do you think poor bedouins can afford jew taxes? Do you think it's right to discriminate someone because they live like they always have? Do you think it's right letting someone live in your country but removing all the benefits of living there? Do you think it's right to treat the rich ones able to pay taxes differently from those who can't?

EDIT:

Originally Posted by Ailysa

That is because the Holocaust was the most unprecedented and barbaric event that had ever happened in the history of mankind.

No, it wasn't. Just the best known genocide in recent years.

[fairyprincess]

Jews have been opressed all throughout history, and theyre still holding their own.

[Juice]

Dont forget to mention that the Jews killed Jezus

[manofsparrow]

That is because the Holocaust was the most unprecedented and barbaric event that had ever happened in the history of mankind.

But most people seem to forget about the other millions of non-jews who died.

Jews have been opressed all throughout history, and theyre still holding their own.

We all like to cheer for the underdog.

[death song]

Originally Posted by Ailysa

Many Bedouins do not follow various Israeli laws and do not pay taxes. Therefore, if they do not pay taxes, why should they recieve all these free goods in return?

...

The Bedouins are appreciated in Israel and have helped with transporting goods for many years. The Bedouins are actually the most respected in the army as they are the best fighters.

So on the one hand, Bedouins are respected, and appreciated; on the other hand, they are viewed as criminals and their entire communities are denied basic human rights granted to all other Israelis based on the fact that some people living there don't pay taxes? Also, transporting goods is unskilled labor; it is not the kind of thing an Israeli aspires to do. Also, Bedouins face much discrimination in the Israeli army -- most are confined to all-Bedouin units and have extreme difficulty climbing the ranks.

Originally Posted by Ailysa

And any country can come and bulldoze someone's house if they want. I've seen many large Western countries such as America do it many times. The Israelis don't go bulldozing Bedouin houses; that's the point! They are a democratic country because they RESPECT the rights of their citizens.

In the US eminent domain requires the government to give just cause for taking someones' property and it is required to give them just compensation for that property. Imagine in the US if every house owned by a black person in an area was declared illegal and bulldozed without compensation until the owners gave up and moved away.

Bedouins make up 37% of the population in the area. They have a high rate of birth. Israel views a Bedouin majority in a large area of its country to be a security threat. The government is forcing them out of their homes to make the area more Jewish, a similar goal to China's policies in Tibet. The constitution of Israel defines it as a Jewish state and many injustices towards its Arab citizens are permitted in furtherance of this.

[manofsparrow]

Originally Posted by Juice

Dont forget to mention that the Jews killed Jezus

And people tend to view it as a good thing.

[Ailysa]

Originally Posted by Mr.Lucifer

HELLO THERE MISTER!? Do you think poor bedouins can afford jew taxes? Do you think it's right to discriminate someone because they live like they always have? Do you think it's right letting someone live in your country but removing all the benefits of living there? Do you think it's right to treat the rich ones able to pay taxes differently from those who can't?

First of all, it isn't Jew taxes - you anti-semtitic */censor*

Second of all, I've never even heard all this bs anyway about Beduoins being mistreated and such. Please go and research and find a non-biased piece of evidence about these facts.

Originally Posted by Juice

Dont forget to mention that the Jews killed Jezus

That was the Romans... don't make me find that thread again...

Originally Posted by manofsparrow

But most people seem to forget about the other millions of non-jews who died.

Does that somewhat degrade the 6 million Jews that did? I'd say that's quite a huge magnitude of people that no-one would be able to comprehend.

Originally Posted by death song

So on the one hand, Bedouins are respected, and appreciated; on the other hand, they are viewed as criminals and their entire communities are denied basic human rights granted to all other Israelis based on the fact that some people living there don't pay taxes? Also, transporting goods is unskilled labor; it is not the kind of thing an Israeli aspires to do. Also, Bedouins face much discrimination in the Israeli army -- most are confined to all-Bedouin units and have extreme difficulty climbing the ranks.

Let me guess, you either made up this bs, or being as thick-headed as you sound, you believed this bs from your peers.

What you may have misinterpreted is that the Beduoins are almost as indigenous as the Native Indians in your country or the Aboriginals in Australia in the aspect that they live in remote settlements in the desert. They generally don't have electrical supplies, drinking water, trash services or education around them, as they live in remote locations and/or they are always moving. But they are FREE to go to schools, have health care and all the other necessities that they wish for. In fact, when I went on a trip to Israel, I saw telephone wires by a Beduoin villiage and Beduoins who lived in a town with proper houses and the likes. Their villiages are NOT deemed illegal or whatever bs you want to make up and they are NOT whatsoever discriminated against.

Originally Posted by death song

In the US eminent domain requires the government to give just cause for taking someones' property and it is required to give them just compensation for that property. Imagine in the US if every house owned by a black person in an area was declared illegal and bulldozed without compensation until the owners gave up and moved away.

Then what do you say about this: YouTube - Still Standing ? You know, I've had enough of your lies. And I can't stand these hypocritical bigots that continue to prejudice and hate and discriminate against others because of their intolerance for others. Don't you see how shallow you are for hating for no reason, but because of the lies or rumours that you hear and spread?

Originally Posted by death song

Bedouins make up 37% of the population in the area. They have a high rate of birth. Israel views a Bedouin majority in a large area of its country to be a security threat. The government is forcing them out of their homes to make the area more Jewish, a similar goal to China's policies in Tibet. The constitution of Israel defines it as a Jewish state and many injustices towards its Arab citizens are permitted in furtherance of this.

37% in what area? And why should they view Beduoins as a security threat, apart from the fact that a few smuggle illegal immigrants into the country? And no they are not forcing any Beduoins from their homes to make it more 'Jewish.' Once again, there are no injustices to its Arab citizens, apart from the few that get shot for carrying around explosives in public resteraunts.

You know, the only people that Israel have forcefully kicked out of their homes were their own Israeli citizens in Gaza 2 years ago - as I said in the first page (Which I can assume you did not read), which was one of the most beautiful places in Israel - just for peace. And I opposed this act when there was debate whether or not they should give it to the Arabs - one of my opinions that the Arabs, knowing their selfish and stubborn ways, would want more and it would not be a move towards peace. Turns out I was right.

[Mr.Lucifer]

Originally Posted by Ailysa

First of all, it isn't Jew taxes - you anti-semtitic */censor*

Israel is a Jewish country. The only reason it exists is because of Judaism. The ones who decide the taxes are jews. Therefore it is jew taxes >.> I fail to see the anti-semitism.

[koolaid_g]

People, we are NOT talking the holocaust... We're talking about the conflict between Isreal and Palestine. I really don't effin care about what happened in the holocaust. I didn't do it, and I wasn't there. Using it as an excuse to just move in and take over Palestine is just plain ignorant. Why is it that people feel so bad for PRESENT day jews because of what happened? I bet most of you don't even realize there's a holocaust happening AS WE SPEAK in Africa... The fact is the country RIGHTFULLY belongs to the Palestinians. Forget about all the religious "HOLY LAND" BS and look at it from a standpoint of right vs. wrong... If the Canadians came down and took our land I'd be pretty pissed off wouldn't you?

[manofsparrow]

Originally Posted by Ailysa

Does that somewhat degrade the 6 million Jews that did? I'd say that's quite a huge magnitude of people that no-one would be able to comprehend.

Is the Holocaust the only mass murdering event you've ever heard of?

Then what do you say about this: YouTube - Still Standing ? You know, I've had enough of your lies. And I can't stand these hypocritical bigots that continue to prejudice and hate and discriminate against others because of their intolerance for others. Don't you see how shallow you are for hating for no reason, but because of the lies or rumours that you hear and spread?

He's right about eminent domain.
Eminent Domain

Let me guess, you either made up this bs, or being as thick-headed as you sound, you believed this bs from your peers.

What you may have misinterpreted is that the Beduoins are almost as indigenous as the Native Indians in your country or the Aboriginals in Australia in the aspect that they live in remote settlements in the desert. They generally don't have electrical supplies, drinking water, trash services or education around them, as they live in remote locations and/or they are always moving. But they are FREE to go to schools, have health care and all the other necessities that they wish for. In fact, when I went on a trip to Israel, I saw telephone wires by a Beduoin villiage and Beduoins who lived in a town with proper houses and the likes. Their villiages are NOT deemed illegal or whatever bs you want to make up and they are NOT whatsoever discriminated against.

Look up "unrecognized bedouin villages".

Does your mind work like this?

"There's one village that wasn't deemed to be illegal, so that must mean all villages aren't illegal."

37% in what area? And why should they view Beduoins as a security threat, apart from the fact that a few smuggle illegal immigrants into the country? And no they are not forcing any Beduoins from their homes to make it more 'Jewish.' Once again, there are no injustices to its Arab citizens, apart from the few that get shot for carrying around explosives in public resteraunts.

You know, the only people that Israel have forcefully kicked out of their homes were their own Israeli citizens in Gaza 2 years ago - as I said in the first page (Which I can assume you did not read), which was one of the most beautiful places in Israel - just for peace. And I opposed this act when there was debate whether or not they should give it to the Arabs - one of my opinions that the Arabs, knowing their selfish and stubborn ways, would want more and it would not be a move towards peace. Turns out I was right.

And this person is accusing others of hypocrisy, intolerance, lying, spreading rumors, bigotry, listening to biased websites, and being shallow.

People, we are NOT talking the holocaust... We're talking about the conflict between Isreal and Palestine. I really don't effin care about what happened in the holocaust. I didn't do it, and I wasn't there. Using it as an excuse to just move in and take over Palestine is just plain ignorant. Why is it that people feel so bad for PRESENT day jews because of what happened? I bet most of you don't even realize there's a holocaust happening AS WE SPEAK in Africa... The fact is the country RIGHTFULLY belongs to the Palestinians. Forget about all the religious "HOLY LAND" BS and look at it from a standpoint of right vs. wrong... If the Canadians came down and took our land I'd be pretty pissed off wouldn't you?

I don't think anyone (In this thread) cares about the HOLY LAND BS anyways.

[Ailysa]

Originally Posted by Mr.Lucifer

Israel is a Jewish country. The only reason it exists is because of Judaism. The ones who decide the taxes are jews. Therefore it is jew taxes >.> I fail to see the anti-semitism.

Try reading your last sentence -.-

Oh, and how about looking and the countless of antisemetic jokes I saw you post in other threads, laughing about the Holocaust and making jokes about the people who died?

Originally Posted by koolaid_g

People, we are NOT talking the holocaust... We're talking about the conflict between Isreal and Palestine. I really don't effin care about what happened in the holocaust. I didn't do it, and I wasn't there. Using it as an excuse to just move in and take over Palestine is just plain ignorant. Why is it that people feel so bad for PRESENT day jews because of what happened? I bet most of you don't even realize there's a holocaust happening AS WE SPEAK in Africa... The fact is the country RIGHTFULLY belongs to the Palestinians. Forget about all the religious "HOLY LAND" BS and look at it from a standpoint of right vs. wrong... If the Canadians came down and took our land I'd be pretty pissed off wouldn't you?

The reason why I ignored your first and will now ignore your second post, is because you failed to read my arguments in the 1st and 2nd pages which are completely directed towards your contentions.

Originally Posted by manofsparrow

Is the Holocaust the only mass murdering event you've ever heard of?

I've heard of Darfur. But I don't see the relevence of how you are trying to devaluate what happened in the Holocaust by saying that there were other mass killings. And yes, I stand by my argument that the Holocaust was the largest and most unprecedented event in the history of mankind.

Originally Posted by manofsparrow

Look up "unrecognized bedouin villages".

Does your mind work like this?

"There's one village that wasn't deemed to be illegal, so that must mean all villages aren't illegal."

Of course it doesn't. I must admit I had never heard about this demolishing of Beduoin villiages until now. I looked it up and read near the end of an article, crammed into a small paragraph:

Following the demolitions, the Israel Lands Authority said it evacuated 24 "invasions" in the area and that "these invasions have taken place for the seventh time this year, to the same place."

I wonder why the article didn't wish to elaborate on what was meant by "invasion" or how accurately the hebrew was translated to english. For all we know, it could have meant something along the lines of terrorists. I know that Israel wouldn't demolish a place for no reason at all. I really don't see why you have such a strong opinion of Israel being an evil country controlled by baddies.

Originally Posted by manofsparrow

And this person is accusing others of hypocrisy, intolerance, lying, spreading rumors, bigotry, listening to biased websites, and being shallow.

I don't recall myself of being hypocritical, intolerant, lying, spreading rumours, listening to biased websites, or being shallow at all.

[manofsparrow]

Originally Posted by Ailysa

Try reading your last sentence -.-

Oh, and how about looking and the countless of antisemetic jokes I saw you post in other threads, laughing about the Holocaust and making jokes about the people who died?

Jokes are jokes. They aren't meant to be taken seriously.
People make jokes about death all the time.

I've heard of Darfur. But I don't see the relevence of how you are trying to devaluate what happened in the Holocaust by saying that there were other mass killings. And yes, I stand by my argument that the Holocaust was the largest and most unprecedented event in the history of mankind.

I think some people were trying to make a point about Israel being formed because of the Holocaust.

Of course it doesn't. I must admit I had never heard about this demolishing of Beduoin villiages until now. I looked it up and read near the end of an article, crammed into a small paragraph:

I wonder why the article didn't wish to elaborate on what was meant by "invasion" or how accurately the hebrew was translated to english. For all we know, it could have meant something along the lines of terrorists. I know that Israel wouldn't demolish a place for no reason at all. I really don't see why you have such a strong opinion of Israel being an evil country controlled by baddies.

When I said to look up those words, I didn't mean to just read the first website you found on google.

I don't recall myself of being hypocritical, intolerant, lying, spreading rumours, listening to biased websites, or being shallow at all.

Lets see...

________________
Hypocritical: I'm pretty sure you've done some of the things in this thread that you condemned this guy for.

You know, I've had enough of your lies. And I can't stand these hypocritical bigots that continue to prejudice and hate and discriminate against others because of their intolerance for others. Don't you see how shallow you are for hating for no reason, but because of the lies or rumours that you hear and spread?

Intolerant:

And I opposed this act when there was debate whether or not they should give it to the Arabs - one of my opinions that the Arabs, knowing their selfish and stubborn ways, would want more and it would not be a move towards peace. Turns out I was right.

Lying:This could also go with "Spreading Rumors"

Once again, there are no injustices to its Arab citizens, apart from the few that get shot for carrying around explosives in public resteraunts.

Spreading Rumors:This could also go with "Lying"

You know, the only people that Israel have forcefully kicked out of their homes were their own Israeli citizens in Gaza 2 years ago

Listening to biased websites: I have no idea what websites you visit, but you've made some biased posts.

For all we know, it could have meant something along the lines of terrorists. I know that Israel wouldn't demolish a place for no reason at all. I really don't see why you have such a strong opinion of Israel being an evil country controlled by baddies.

Being Shallow:

Many Bedouins do not follow various Israeli laws and do not pay taxes. Therefore, if they do not pay taxes, why should they recieve all these free goods in return?