Perspective and Reality.

[slingblader]

I honestly think a lot of people are missing the point. It's got nothing to do with an individual. The point is, if you have no clue it exists, if you haven't perceived it, in your reality it doesn't exist. It's like the idea of thinking of the incomprehensible. Obviously, you can't.

[ChunkyGerbil]

Originally Posted by slingblader

I honestly think a lot of people are missing the point. It's got nothing to do with an individual. The point is, if you have no clue it exists, if you haven't perceived it, in your reality it doesn't exist. It's like the idea of thinking of the incomprehensible. Obviously, you can't.

True, but, it does exist if you actually had any senses devoted to the particular object. Like a tree falling, it did make a noise but you just weren't there to hear it. What makes it different this time if you weren't there to hear it? Does the tree go "Oh, no ones around, I should fall silently."

[slingblader]

that's not the idea. The idea is that it doesn't exist, because it can't be percieved, it can't be sensed. It's not such a direct ideal, it's a theory of psychology, not say earth science. No one's denying the fact that the tree sends out vibrations creating what we know as sound. The point is, if there is no one there to experience it, it is outside the realm of a human's reality

[Sinjihn]

Originally Posted by slingblader

that's not the idea. The idea is that it doesn't exist, because it can't be percieved, it can't be sensed. It's not such a direct ideal, it's a theory of psychology, not say earth science. No one's denying the fact that the tree sends out vibrations creating what we know as sound. The point is, if there is no one there to experience it, it is outside the realm of a human's reality

THANK YOU FOR UNDERSTANDING.

I thought noone would get it.

[Sinjihn]

Originally Posted by ChunkyGerbil

So you're saying that the "Euros" don't exist to themselfs? It doesn't matter if the Indians have never had an experience with the Euros or even speculate the fact that some other beings may exist. They DO exist; they are an object on the earth, hands down.

Dude, think about it.
If you are an Indian, and all you know, and ever wILL know is Indian people, do Euros exist in YOUR REALITY?
No. You cannot percieve what hasn't been sensed already. Therefore, my theory is saying anything you dont percieve doesn't exist in your reality. Maybe in someone elses, but noone elses matters, therefore, it DOESNT exist.

So basically, everything i will never sense in this world doesn't exist.
If you tell me something i dont know, it exists, but when I die, and there are things I havent percieved, or sensed, i know it as an abstract idea, but i wont know what they are, because they really "dont exist"

[Mr.Lucifer]

Originally Posted by Sinjihn

Dude, think about it.
If you are an Indian, and all you know, and ever wILL know is Indian people, do Euros exist in YOUR REALITY?
No. You cannot percieve what hasn't been sensed already. Therefore, my theory is saying anything you dont percieve doesn't exist in your reality. Maybe in someone elses, but noone elses matters, therefore, it DOESNT exist.

So basically, everything i will never sense in this world doesn't exist.
If you tell me something i dont know, it exists, but when I die, and there are things I havent percieved, or sensed, i know it as an abstract idea, but i wont know what they are, because they really "dont exist"

Actually, it just doesn't exist in your mind. Changing the word to reality doesn't really change anything.

That's like changing the word masturbation in your head to sex, you're still a virgin.

[slingblader]

Originally Posted by Mr.Lucifer

Actually, it just doesn't exist in your mind. Changing the word to reality doesn't really change anything.

That's like changing the word masturbation in your head to sex, you're still a virgin.

No..... you're not. If you think its sex, then you AREN'T a virgin are you? At least, not in terms of your reality. And guess what, no one's reality but yours is important.

[shintenzu]

Originally Posted by slingblader

the point isn't the conceptual. Pi DOESN'T exist. Can you tell me what it is? Can you show it to me? It's a concept, one that can be manipulated, but not "comprehended." The basic ideal is that you are limited to the world which you are capable of defining. For all we know there could be a giant projector playing out our lives now, but not being able to percieve that, it doesn't exist. Our personal worlds continue unaffected by inconceivable (that is, directly) intrusions.

Pie does exist, because if you divide the circumference of an object by its diameter you get a number and that number is pi. Simply because we cannot define it to a number does not mean it exists because without that number the idea of a circle would not exist. if you say perfect circles do not exist then I will draw one on a cumputer, print it out and prove you wrong.

There are stars out there that we cannot percieve, feel, touch, see, etc, but simply because we cannot witness them does not mean they do not exist. That is such a closed minded concept of a kid in a closet pretending the whole world does not exist as long as he stays in that closet. I have a blue gampad in my room, but the fact that you cannot perceive it does not mean it ceases to exist. There may be a skelenton buried in ur backyard, but simply because no one can percieve it does not mean it does not exist. Existance is DISCOVERED when you find it, not created, and that is the type of faulty logic that would have kept us in the dark ages, why would someone seek to discover somthing that does not exist? Or do you actually thing you hold the power of God himself by causing the existance of an object just by witnessing it? The logic is so flawed and it complicts with all possible aspects of common sense.

[slingblader]

Originally Posted by shintenzu

Pie does exist, because if you divide the circumference of an object by its diameter you get a number and that number is pi. Simply because we cannot define it to a number does not mean it exists because without that number the idea of a circle would not exist. if you say perfect circles do not exist then I will draw one on a cumputer, print it out and prove you wrong.

There are stars out there that we cannot percieve, feel, touch, see, etc, but simply because we cannot witness them does not mean they do not exist. That is such a closed minded concept of a kid in a closet pretending the whole world does not exist as long as he stays in that closet. I have a blue gampad in my room, but the fact that you cannot perceive it does not mean it ceases to exist. There may be a skelenton buried in ur backyard, but simply because no one can percieve it does not mean it does not exist. Existance is DISCOVERED when you find it, not created, and that is the type of faulty logic that would have kept us in the dark ages, why would someone seek to discover somthing that does not exist? Or do you actually thing you hold the power of God himself by causing the existance of an object just by witnessing it? The logic is so flawed and it complicts with all possible aspects of common sense.

Ok, well I'm done discussing after this, as obviously no one is paying attention. This thread isn't about the physical. Do you know the definition of reality? It;s effectively the world you live in. It's everything around you that you perceive, that you can comprehend. Without perceiving it, without understanding it, IT DOES NOT EXIST. Under your logic, someone could be standing in front of every one of us yelling at the top of their longs for our entire lives. Maybe there is? But guess what, it doesn't matter. Why? Because it obviously can't be percieved by humans.

Seriously, 90% replying to this are missing the entire point of the thread. And pi doesn't exist even fundamentally for the record. It's not even a think, it's a concept, as are all numbers. But regardless, it still isn't "real." Why? Because one cannot perceive infinity. It's not possible.

[Jon88]

This is probably the 5th time in my life I've encountered this "tree makes no sound if no one hears it" philosophical question. Like always, it becomes an argument of semantics. The tree example should really be thrown away, in my opinion, or worded better.

There is a big difference in saying, "The tree did not make a sound", and, "in 'our' realities the tree did not make a sound".

The word Sound is a representation of a observed physical phenomenon given a meaning agreed upon by most people. To tell someone that a falling tree would not make a sound simply because no one is around to hear it would not make sense based on the accepted meaning of the word sound.

It also does not make sense to say something does not exist simply because you do not know it exists. As most people accept there is a reality beyond what is present in our minds. All one must do to make sense is say it does not exist in 'our minds', or it is unknown.

[quote]

Originally Posted by shintenzu

if you say perfect circles do not exist then I will draw one on a cumputer, print it out and prove you wrong.

A computer can not make a 'perfect' circle, only a estimation. We can not program a computer to create a perfect circle using a fraction. We need the exact decimal number, which has yet to be determined.

[Sinjihn]

Listen. The tree fall thing makes sense, because essentially, the tree doesnt exist if noone was around to hear it either.

If noone EVER sees the tree, it will never exist. If you die before you see the tree, it doesn't exist.
HOWEVER
If you see the tree, you can speculate the sound it made, but the sound never existed, because the waves never reached your ears.

Pi exists as an abstract idea or concept but it isn't concievable. It exists, but its not real. Reality is anything you percieve around you. Anything you can smell touch hear see taste think about and sense is your reality. So let's say there are people living on pluto. Do they exist? Not unless we sense them. We can think about the idea abstractly, but to everyone they willl not exist. HOWVER. If you as an individual don't see them, it doesnt matter if the ENTIRE WORLD saw them. If you never heard about it, saw it, touched it, etc, IT DOESNT EXIST.

[Mr.Lucifer]

Originally Posted by slingblader

No..... you're not. If you think its sex, then you AREN'T a virgin are you? At least, not in terms of your reality. And guess what, no one's reality but yours is important.

Other people's "reality" shape yours. Therefore you have to think about others.

But that is purely subjective. It's meaningless to discuss. Like this whole thread...

People have different opinions on this. It's like a muslim trying to convert a fundamental christian by repeating over and over again: "ALLAH AKHBAR". It don't work. Give some damn facts for crying out loud. The definition of reality isn't carved in stone.

[slingblader]

Originally Posted by Mr.Lucifer

Other people's "reality" shape yours. Therefore you have to think about others.

But that is purely subjective. It's meaningless to discuss. Like this whole thread...

People have different opinions on this. It's like a muslim trying to convert a fundamental christian by repeating over and over again: "ALLAH AKHBAR". It don't work. Give some damn facts for crying out loud. The definition of reality isn't carved in stone.

Other people's reality "shaping" yours is irrelevant. You still have a specifically defined reality, and nothing exist beyond it.

And it's not subjective, it a fact. As I have said before, they're obviously things that we haven't percieved. But do they affect us? Are they a part of your or my reality? No.

And the definition of reality is also irrelevant in this thread. Reality's definition being this or that, things that are not known of do not exist. They reach "existence" upon being discovered by an individual, and by extension other individuals.

Yes, I'm entirely aware of the "scientific" view. No one's doubting the physical presence of things beyond our knowledge. But that's not the point. We're all human, and that's the real science. What is and what isn't means nothing except through our eyes. And through our eyes, things that aren't known don't exist.

[Mr.Lucifer]

Originally Posted by slingblader

Other people's reality "shaping" yours is irrelevant. You still have a specifically defined reality, and nothing exist beyond it.

And it's not subjective, it a fact. As I have said before, they're obviously things that we haven't percieved. But do they affect us? Are they a part of your or my reality? No.

And the definition of reality is also irrelevant in this thread. Reality's definition being this or that, things that are not known of do not exist. They reach "existence" upon being discovered by an individual, and by extension other individuals.

Yes, I'm entirely aware of the "scientific" view. No one's doubting the physical presence of things beyond our knowledge. But that's not the point. We're all human, and that's the real science. What is and what isn't means nothing except through our eyes. And through our eyes, things that aren't known don't exist.

The definition of reality is subjective.

What you're saying is that in our minds, we know only what we have percieved? That's pretty obvious... We can't have knowledge of something we have never gotten the knowledge of.

[slingblader]

Originally Posted by Mr.Lucifer

The definition of reality is subjective.

What you're saying is that in our minds, we know only what we have percieved? That's pretty obvious... We can't have knowledge of something we have never gotten the knowledge of.

Obvious or not the point of this thread seems to be evading you.