do you think the bombings of hiroshima was good or bad.

[manofsparrow]

Originally Posted by Billionz

Every day the war went on lives were being lost, and like I said before, we did warn them. I think most civilians in Japan wanted the war to end, but the leaders were in control and they didn't. I think the leaders of Japan were willing to sacrifice every last man woman and child if it meant a win.

I heard that the emperor was actually trying to be more pacifist, although as the war went on, he became more aggressive. Then, near the end of the war, he wanted to end the war without having a horrible bargaining position (Think of Germany after WWI). The other leaders, however, seemed to want Japan to continue. I'm not sure about the civilians, although I heard that there were some extremists who actually tried raiding the palace after Japan surrendered.

[Colby]

Originally Posted by manofsparrow

I heard that the emperor was actually trying to be more pacifist, although as the war went on, he became more aggressive. Then, near the end of the war, he wanted to end the war without having a horrible bargaining position (Think of Germany after WWI). The other leaders, however, seemed to want Japan to continue. I'm not sure about the civilians, although I heard that there were some extremists who actually tried raiding the palace after Japan surrendered.

Yeah, well there always are nut jobs I guess (Or at least people full of spirit, but no logic behind it).

[slingblader]

Originally Posted by Billionz

Yeah, well there always are nut jobs I guess (Or at least people full of spirit, but no logic behind it).

I am restraining myself and not making a comment on religion....


But yes, Japan was willing to "surrender" but refused a unconditional surrender to the point where they were willing to continue the war.

[guntakeda]

Apparently some people here dont know there history.

>.>
America didnt even need to send down teh bombs. As they had already taken over most of the Japanese Islands.
They had pretty much won the war in the pacific. It gave them no reason to drop any bombs at all. As someone stated, it was to end the war completely.

BTW Billionz, talking about torture, executions of American Troops. The Americans did just as much of it & vice versa. Dont think America is high and mighty because in every war except WW2, they have been doing it for selfish reasons.

America had been ****ting all over Japan for about 10 years. The final straw was cutting Japan off from American supplied resources. America Embargo'd?(word?) them.
Cutting off Oil etc. WHich is why Japan attacked Pearl Harbour in the first place which inevitably lead to the bombing of naga and hiro.

This question should even be put down, ofcourse it was wrong. Killing 1.5 million people isnt wrong?> Most of which were civilians.
Pleasee there is no debate here. Get some ****ing morals. Actually get some ****ing brains. No one should or can properly justify killing that many people just to win a war!
Innocent people i may add.

[slingblader]

Originally Posted by guntakeda

Apparently some people here dont know there history.

>.>
America didnt even need to send down teh bombs. As they had already taken over most of the Japanese Islands.
They had pretty much won the war in the pacific. It gave them no reason to drop any bombs at all. As someone stated, it was to end the war completely.

BTW Billionz, talking about torture, executions of American Troops. The Americans did just as much of it & vice versa. Dont think America is high and mighty because in every war except WW2, they have been doing it for selfish reasons.

America had been ****ting all over Japan for about 10 years. The final straw was cutting Japan off from American supplied resources. America Embargo'd?(word?) them.
Cutting off Oil etc. WHich is why Japan attacked Pearl Harbour in the first place which inevitably lead to the bombing of naga and hiro.

This question should even be put down, ofcourse it was wrong. Killing 1.5 million people isnt wrong?> Most of which were civilians.
Pleasee there is no debate here. Get some ****ing morals. Actually get some ****ing brains. No one should or can properly justify killing that many people just to win a war!
Innocent people i may add.

You go back to history....

No reason to drop the bombs? War was over?
Apparently you are unaware of the Japanese mentality at the time...
They had no plans to win, they didn't care. They wanted American lives, simple as that. Take there island defenses for example. They simply entrenched themselves completely, and basically isolated themselves from everywhere. They knew American could take what they needed to with time, they just weren't going to keep it easy. Keep in mind, nearly of one of those islands was unable to be taken until literally nearly every Japaneses person was killed. You think they wouldn't do worse fro the mainland? They were ready to use every Japanese person to make it as hard for America as possible. Those bombs not only saved American lives, but in the end probably Japanese lives too.

The Japanese gave much worse than they got as far was POW go... There are laws in America that protected them. Japanese were marginally better to Americans, but the way they treated Filipinos was outright despicable. They fell out of line during their death marches? Stabbed to death, simple as that. No questions asked.

Ah, so because America didn't agree with Japan's conquest in China, and we embargoed them, Japan was justified in taking American lives? Love the logic there.

Around 80K people were killed with one bombing, 150k or so in another. PERHAPS on the most ridiculous upscale, another 50K died do to radiation etc over time.

1.5 mil? Ok....

And again, the idea of taking lives to save lives isn't "immoral" Is it the best thing to do? Morally probably not, but it's certainly the obvious choice when there is only to real answer: Kill more, or kill less.

Americans in Pearl Harbor were innocent too. You act as if Japan were not only wronged, but actually acting acceptably. I can understand not thinking the bombs were a good choice (even though I think it's blatantly obvious it was the choice to make) but to talk as if Japan did nothing wrong?

[Dogs]

Not really sure whether or not it is good or bad.
We were about to have a full invasion on Japan, probably completely destroying all of their culture and stupidly "American-izing" everything/ Killing much more than just the population of Hiroshima. But, I'm not sure if the amount of cancer victims from Hiroshima (which is still today very radioactive today) amounts to the amount that would have been killed had we actually invaded...

[manofsparrow]

Originally Posted by guntakeda

Dont think America is high and mighty because in every war except WW2, they have been doing it for selfish reasons.

Actually, America did it because it was attacked and decided to counter-attack.

We probably won't know whether there was a better solution, since we can't read the minds of people back in 1945.

[King Next]

Originally Posted by slingblader

Those bombs not only saved American lives, but in the end probably Japanese lives too.

so u are trying to justify the bombing and the mass killing of half a nation by saying 'it was for their good'?

i dont understand how u can be so single minded and intent on making yourself/america appear heroic and saint-like

[manofsparrow]

Originally Posted by King Next

so u are trying to justify the bombing and the mass killing of half a nation by saying 'it was for their good'?

i dont understand how u can be so single minded and intent on making yourself/america appear heroic and saint-like

It wasn't actually that much, but it should probably count as terrorism.

Also look at Vietnam.

[Colby]

Originally Posted by King Next

so u are trying to justify the bombing and the mass killing of half a nation by saying 'it was for their good'?

i dont understand how u can be so single minded and intent on making yourself/america appear heroic and saint-like

I don't think anyone thinks America a hero, it was a choice of killing more or less like he said, we weren't very well going to do nothing, and the bombs killed less people than if we had continued on with the struggle. I don't think people understand that Japan was willing to sacrifice every last life (including women and children) to fight us, not only would we have taken a significantly larger loss of men, Japan would have lost so many more.

It was a lose lose situation to begin with, we just chose the lesser of two evils at the time (or at least what we could manage). I also think people don't read, I said before that Japan was given several warnings to surrender, the Japanese leaders could have STOPPED the bombs from coming, but because they were so stubborn and were willing to sacrifice so much, they didn't.

Honestly, I believe what Japan did in comparison to what we did was a lot more morally wrong, they attacked us with no warning, we at least gave them the choice to stop our attack.

I'm sick of foreigners trying to make America the bad guy all the time, just because we have made some poor decisions it doesn't make it any less of a country than anywhere else, and certainly the converse of that.

[King Next]

Originally Posted by Billionz

I'm sick of foreigners trying to make America the bad guy all the time, just because we have made some poor decisions it doesn't make it any less of a country than anywhere else, and certainly the converse of that.

i doubt america needs any more recognition than it already has

so in fact, what your actually saying is by dropping the bombs you were doing us (including japan of course) all a favour

i dont understand why you are pressing my point, you and half the other people in this thread have come on and defended the bombings saying 'oh we gave a warning, they didnt', 'it was either us or them', or 'we did it for the greater good'

which leads to my earlier point; 'america is great'

and as for the 'pearl harbour' incident well lets be honest i doubt the bombing of a military target resulting in around 3-4 thousand non-civilians can compare to a bombing attack resulting in more than 100 times more deaths of civilians

most people i know would consider the use of nuclear bombs horific and unthinkable but obviously in america you guys havent quite decided whether it was 'good or bad' yet

but relating to the political and strategical side of the bombings and the war, we probably know very little about what actually happened and why it happened and what sort of interests were considered when the decisions were made so we can only give opinions

[Sinjihn]

You guys are talking like Japan actually had a chance of defeating America.

They were a considerable force, no doubt, but when it comes down to it, they couldn't take over, all they could do was hold ground.

[manofsparrow]

History is written by the winners anyways.
Maybe the American leaders tried to reason with themselves that they had no choice, or over-estimated some of the statistics. Or maybe not.

[slingblader]

Originally Posted by King Next

i doubt america needs any more recognition than it already has

so in fact, what your actually saying is by dropping the bombs you were doing us (including japan of course) all a favour

Where the hell are you coming from? Doing Japan a favor? No.... We were hitting them with bombs. It's not as if Japan wasn't at war with us. Stopping making it seem like it was a random bombing. No one said it was a favor, it was war. If Japan wants to start, they have to be prepared for all the eventualities (and it was certainly Japan who escalated it to a physical conflict).

i dont understand why you are pressing my point, you and half the other people in this thread have come on and defended the bombings saying 'oh we gave a warning, they didnt', 'it was either us or them', or 'we did it for the greater good'

which leads to my earlier point; 'america is great'

That's fine, cuz I have no clue what it is you're trying to gain with this portion, but I'm relatively certain you failed at it.

and as for the 'pearl harbour' incident well lets be honest i doubt the bombing of a military target resulting in around 3-4 thousand non-civilians can compare to a bombing attack resulting in more than 100 times more deaths of civilians

No one's trying to compare them. Seriously, stop it, and pay attention. EVERYTHING in this world is based on the situation. You're taking this argument as if it were centered around the word "kill." It's not. There's a ridiculous difference between the two. Japan got pissed that we stopped trading with them because we didn't agree with them, so they attacked us without warning, and pretty much without reason. We, in an effort to end a war and save American and Japanese live, dropped a bomb. WE. WERE. AT. WAR. It happens.

most people i know would consider the use of nuclear bombs horific and unthinkable but obviously in america you guys havent quite decided whether it was 'good or bad' yet

No, we consider the reasons we were forced to use the bomb horrible. Feel free to get off your high horse any time, and look at the reality of the actions of Japan.

but relating to the political and strategical side of the bombings and the war, we probably know very little about what actually happened and why it happened and what sort of interests were considered when the decisions were made so we can only give opinions

Im pretty sure were over all pretty aware.... American demanded an unconditional surrender, and nothing less. Japan refused this. America reached a point of all out warfare, and ended the war in the most effective way we had, the atomic bomb.


As Billionz said, the idea of America getting all this bs for no reason, is bs.

[King Next]

Originally Posted by slingblader

Where the hell are you coming from? Doing Japan a favor? No.... We were hitting them with bombs. It's not as if Japan wasn't at war with us. Stopping making it seem like it was a random bombing. No one said it was a favor, it was war. If Japan wants to start, they have to be prepared for all the eventualities (and it was certainly Japan who escalated it to a physical conflict).




That's fine, cuz I have no clue what it is you're trying to gain with this portion, but I'm relatively certain you failed at it.




No one's trying to compare them. Seriously, stop it, and pay attention. EVERYTHING in this world is based on the situation. You're taking this argument as if it were centered around the word "kill." It's not. There's a ridiculous difference between the two. Japan got pissed that we stopped trading with them because we didn't agree with them, so they attacked us without warning, and pretty much without reason. We, in an effort to end a war and save American and Japanese live, dropped a bomb. WE. WERE. AT. WAR. It happens.




No, we consider the reasons we were forced to use the bomb horrible. Feel free to get off your high horse any time, and look at the reality of the actions of Japan.




Im pretty sure were over all pretty aware.... American demanded an unconditional surrender, and nothing less. Japan refused this. America reached a point of all out warfare, and ended the war in the most effective way we had, the atomic bomb.


As Billionz said, the idea of America getting all this bs for no reason, is bs.

for some who spends a lot of time on serious discussion

you have little idea about what you know and dont know. yet you feel so strongly about it that u just open your mouth and let it all out

ill summarise wat u said:

-japan deserved it
-'we' warned them they invited us to bomb them
-'we' shud be blamed for anything we did the right thing

u need to understand that we dont know why the decisions were made and what the real interests and reasons were.

'japan got mad at us for the oil embargo so they bombed us first'

honestly^ think of the bigger picture here, u need to get it into your head that you dont know ****

and no im not from japan