Homosexuality

[manofsparrow]

Originally Posted by Odin5

Of course (If I didn't make this painfully obvious already) I'm not taking sides on this whole idiotic thing 'we' call a thread, but technically, the second part is right. There is no biological benefit of having being gay/lesbian. They can't reproduce, no matter how you look at it.

Then again, we DO have 6.6 billion people...Even if ha-...No wait, I'd be choosing sides then if I went on.

You can still reproduce even if you're gay/lesbian, although you have to go through more work.
But Pitbull didn't really defend his "they can't reproduce" statement when Yvgeniy gave a response to it.

I probably shouldn't be wasting so much time posting in Gunzfactor, but I'm really bored.

[Odin5]

Originally Posted by manofsparrow

You can still reproduce even if you're gay/lesbian, although you have to go through more work.
But Pitbull didn't really defend his "they can't reproduce" statement when Yvgeniy gave a response to it.

I probably shouldn't be wasting so much time posting in Gunzfactor, but I'm really bored.

If you're talking about gender-switching, I'm not sure if that has ever worked. I don't know, I've never done it or researched it, but I thought that it was just basically an "outline", not the "full-thing"

[Yvgeniy]

Originally Posted by Odin5

If you're talking about gender-switching, I'm not sure if that has ever worked. I don't know, I've never done it or researched it, but I thought that it was just basically an "outline", not the "full-thing"

Well, there's gender switching, sperm banks (if the homosexuals happen to be male they can use their own sperm), adoption, etc. Plenty of options for a gay couple, really. But to backtrack a little bit to your earlier point, while homosexuals serve no purpose biologically, they serve a purpose in society. Our ultimate goal as a body of people (society) is to maintain the well being of that body of people (society). I can think of at least one way that homosexuals would be a benefit to society as a direct result of their sexuality, and plenty of others outside of that.

[manofsparrow]

Originally Posted by Odin5

If you're talking about gender-switching, I'm not sure if that has ever worked. I don't know, I've never done it or researched it, but I thought that it was just basically an "outline", not the "full-thing"

The first way would probably to just have sex with the opposite gender for the purpose of reproducing.

I heard there's other ways to do it scientifically, although I never researched this topic yet.

[Psychotic]

I didn't read most of these, but I will respond in general and length.

I'm a bisexual male living in Mississippi, USA. My family is highly conservative and I get death threats because of my location frequently. I have always asked myself questions such as. . did I choose this, or was I born this way? Is it wrong?

Well, my opinion is that no one should be criticized through character on something as insignificant as sexual orientation. It's prejudice at any eye-level, but just widely accepted.

Aslong as I can remember, I've always been attracted to boys. Comparing myself in a vain way, or just simply being attracted to them. Though when I got older, and I started learning that the way I already felt in this. . one life I have to live was unacceptable by most people, I started to question my faith.

Should I be ashamed, or live a life of depression and rituals, rather than proove my self worth to no one other than myself? I strife to improve the material life I have, for I believe that your conscious can only ' rise ' to whatever your conscious believes. . Which is why there are so many religions and heavens.

Homosexuality is a life-choice, they say. How many people know men who have been married for five years, and then they decide they are gay? It happens quite often. It's definately a life-choice. You can always choose to put your pee-pee in any hole you want, but if it's not something that really turns you on, then it isn't worth it.

It is biologically proven that you can be ' born ' with homosexual tendencies. The stomach jitters you get when someone is sitting near you and you try to play it cool, or drop your pencil so you can reach your hand on the floor near them. It's all the same feelings, emotions and strife.

No human being is completely different chemical from one another. Rather than the contradiction that sentence provides, the rational side of it is that it is true. We all feel the same things one time or another.

I'm not going to debate religion, though I think it has a huge part of the way people percieve everyone in every situation.

-Edit- And Gender Switching to reproduce? Sorry, it doesn't work like that. If a guy becomes a woman, he'll never be much like a woman down-stairs, because he has no working ovaries. More adoption is what we need.

-Another Edit- Commenting on the opinion " Homosexuality doesn't have biological symmetry, purpose or they can't reproduce. "

Trust me, they're aware. It's not about being able to reproduce. Love is blind, my friend. Every aspect of the world happens for stability ( murder, genocide, homosexuality, religion, crime, prison ). Without sexual toleration, or stability as a society, or little planet will suffer from fates that . . are inexcusable.

[PlatanoStyle]

D= idk my uncle is gay in a way he was born ike that ,that what my father said nothing happeend to him to make him gay he was born gay that all .

[aoshima]

a lad came out gay from my school tother day, about 15, i dont have anything personaly against gays but i still think him comin out is a mistake hes gonna regret, cuz a LOT of people will react badly to it
thats just the way life goes, there will always be people who appeal to stuff, people who arent bothered about stuff, and people who hate stuff

[King Banana]

I just glanced over the reproduction thing, I used to work as a Ambulance driver and on my days off I could do extra work delivering blood, medicines and equipment. There was one company called "men not included" (they were included quite a lot in reality) which would help lesbain couples find males willing to donate sperm. I would literally pick up a self cooled flask with the sperm and deliver it to a couple who would self seminate using something that looked unlike a turkey baster, I kid you not. I remember this one couple who were really hot, both lipstick lesbians how I wished they'd invite me in to play with them. Well yeah that company sucked because they were just about making money of couples desperate to have children, I don't even think they ran HIV tests, some of the males donating were gay.
Anyways, I personally don't care about other peoples sexuality if a man is attracted to a man it's his business, if only everyone thought like that and left people to do as they pleased the world would be a nicer place. If my brother told me he was gay I'd just want him to be careful, although the instance of contracting HIV has increased within hetrosexual people. I know it's kinda sad but that's the first thing I think of when thinking of gay couples, the virus.
I must admit when I was in my teens I was confused about my sexuality, at a point I though I was gay and then bi. Now once in a while I might find a person of the same sex attractive but I won't act upon it as I know that's not me, I'm not supressing myself as I've tried that and found it just wasn't me.

[Pitbull]

Originally Posted by Psychotic

I didn't read most of these, but I will respond in general and length.

I'm a bisexual male living in Mississippi, USA. My family is highly conservative and I get death threats because of my location frequently. I have always asked myself questions such as. . did I choose this, or was I born this way? Is it wrong?

Well, my opinion is that no one should be criticized through character on something as insignificant as sexual orientation. It's prejudice at any eye-level, but just widely accepted.

Aslong as I can remember, I've always been attracted to boys. Comparing myself in a vain way, or just simply being attracted to them. Though when I got older, and I started learning that the way I already felt in this. . one life I have to live was unacceptable by most people, I started to question my faith.

Should I be ashamed, or live a life of depression and rituals, rather than proove my self worth to no one other than myself? I strife to improve the material life I have, for I believe that your conscious can only ' rise ' to whatever your conscious believes. . Which is why there are so many religions and heavens.

Homosexuality is a life-choice, they say. How many people know men who have been married for five years, and then they decide they are gay? It happens quite often. It's definately a life-choice. You can always choose to put your pee-pee in any hole you want, but if it's not something that really turns you on, then it isn't worth it.

It is biologically proven that you can be ' born ' with homosexual tendencies. The stomach jitters you get when someone is sitting near you and you try to play it cool, or drop your pencil so you can reach your hand on the floor near them. It's all the same feelings, emotions and strife.

No human being is completely different chemical from one another. Rather than the contradiction that sentence provides, the rational side of it is that it is true. We all feel the same things one time or another.

I'm not going to debate religion, though I think it has a huge part of the way people percieve everyone in every situation.

-Edit- And Gender Switching to reproduce? Sorry, it doesn't work like that. If a guy becomes a woman, he'll never be much like a woman down-stairs, because he has no working ovaries. More adoption is what we need.

-Another Edit- Commenting on the opinion " Homosexuality doesn't have biological symmetry, purpose or they can't reproduce. "

Trust me, they're aware. It's not about being able to reproduce. Love is blind, my friend. Every aspect of the world happens for stability ( murder, genocide, homosexuality, religion, crime, prison ). Without sexual toleration, or stability as a society, or little planet will suffer from fates that . . are inexcusable.

interesting point with men being married to women with kids then like 6 years later they leave them to be with a man.. they just like turned ghey and didnt like girls any more. this is where science is wrong some times.

Yes some people could be born ghey

and yes people turn gay.

[Deathguise/Closure]

Originally Posted by Vintageplayground

EDIT AGAIN: im just catholic.. im not very much into it. i dont go to church
anything
i think its more my european heritage that makes me not so
comfertable around them.
If any of you have european family like... REAL european
family i think you would understand me a lil more

I'm sorry but this quote just pissed me off. You do know that the first country in the world where same-sex marriages were permitted was Holland, which happens to be in Europe?

If you were raised as an American catholic then yes, but if you dont go to church and your not very much into your belief, why did you even mention it? And how does it make you uncomfortable?

[Yvgeniy]

Originally Posted by King Banana

I just glanced over the reproduction thing, I used to work as a Ambulance driver and on my days off I could do extra work delivering blood, medicines and equipment. There was one company called "men not included" (they were included quite a lot in reality) which would help lesbain couples find males willing to donate sperm. I would literally pick up a self cooled flask with the sperm and deliver it to a couple who would self seminate using something that looked unlike a turkey baster, I kid you not. I remember this one couple who were really hot, both lipstick lesbians how I wished they'd invite me in to play with them. Well yeah that company sucked because they were just about making money of couples desperate to have children, I don't even think they ran HIV tests, some of the males donating were gay.

I'm sure you made use of that sperm yourself. I doubt you could resist having it in your hand and not taking the opportunity to...

Originally Posted by Pitbull

interesting point with men being married to women with kids then like 6 years later they leave them to be with a man.. they just like turned ghey and didnt like girls any more. this is where science is wrong some times.

Yes some people could be born ghey

and yes people turn gay.

Naw man... it isn't people "turning" gay, it's people finally coming out of the closet. I mean, I could go through the general spiel that I went through a few times, and whip out some links with direct evidence, but suffice it to say that gays are born. However, that isn't to say that choice isn't involved in it.

For example, the men that have been married for some 6 years and then "turned" gay have actually always been gay, but made a choice to not show it. I mean, gays aren't stupid. Although at times they're not even sure if they're gay or not, and sometimes there's just an internal struggle about their sexuality conflicting with the morals and beliefs taught to them all their life, the thing that often happens is they make a conscious choice to not pursue their life as a homosexual. This does NOT change how they feel about other men if they are men, but they simply choose to ignore their gay side for an easier life (and to be more accepted in society).

Think of it like this... if it were normal for everyone to like the same sex, and abnormal to like the opposite sex... you would still like girls, wouldn't you? There's nothing that could change the fact that you like girls, but you can make a choice to ignore those feelings and date other men simply because it's the norm in that society. The same thing applies to gay people except the other way around.

[shintenzu]

Originally Posted by Yvgeniy

I'm sure you made use of that sperm yourself. I doubt you could resist having it in your hand and not taking the opportunity to...



Naw man... it isn't people "turning" gay, it's people finally coming out of the closet. I mean, I could go through the general spiel that I went through a few times, and whip out some links with direct evidence, but suffice it to say that gays are born. However, that isn't to say that choice isn't involved in it.

For example, the men that have been married for some 6 years and then "turned" gay have actually always been gay, but made a choice to not show it. I mean, gays aren't stupid. Although at times they're not even sure if they're gay or not, and sometimes there's just an internal struggle about their sexuality conflicting with the morals and beliefs taught to them all their life, the thing that often happens is they make a conscious choice to not pursue their life as a homosexual. This does NOT change how they feel about other men if they are men, but they simply choose to ignore their gay side for an easier life (and to be more accepted in society).

Think of it like this... if it were normal for everyone to like the same sex, and abnormal to like the opposite sex... you would still like girls, wouldn't you? There's nothing that could change the fact that you like girls, but you can make a choice to ignore those feelings and date other men simply because it's the norm in that society. The same thing applies to gay people except the other way around.

That is pretty much saying that every single person who was married then went homosexual was never attracted to females at anypoint, they were ALL just pretending. I think thats a pretty far stretch.

[Yvgeniy]

Originally Posted by shintenzu

That is pretty much saying that every single person who was married then went homosexual was never attracted to females at anypoint, they were ALL just pretending. I think thats a pretty far stretch.

Not a far stretch at all. I mean... honestly, dude... think about it. Would YOU choose to be gay? I mean, what makes people CHOOSE to be gay? What, you think any regular straight guy wakes up one day and thinks to himself, "You know... it'd be nice to make out with some men. Hell... let's ditch this whole girlfriend thing and start living my life for real. Men is where it's at!" Because taking into account how often that happens, I think THAT is a stretch--to say that so many straight men decide one day they don't like women and want men. There's no conscious choice on a straight man's part to just decide they want to have relationships with men.

I mean, if you aren't sexually attracted to men to begin with, and think it's nasty to kiss another man or have sex with another man, then why the hell would you put yourself through all the trouble and give up the female booty to be the reject of society who suffers for what he is? I mean, no matter how you look at it being homosexual is a disadvantage in just about every way. Society looks down upon it, some people absolutely despise it, you'll get death threats, you have to make love to men (an unpleasant experience for a straight man), and you don't really deal with women anymore.

So tell me, how is THAT not a stretch? I mean, just on the basis of that, taking into account no actual evidence of anything, I think one can safely conclude that there is something else that drives people to embrace homosexuality, like a sexual attraction to the same sex perhaps. I see little other sane reason for it. However, I DO see a reason why homosexuals, those that have an attraction for the same sex, might pretend like they're "normal." There is every reason out there for them NOT to embrace their homosexuality for the sake of having a normal and peaceful life, even if they have to pretend to love.

So no, I don't think that all those men that one day come out and declare they're gay is a stretch. Far from it. Maybe they're tired of living their life of pretense, maybe they finally figured out what their real sexual preference is, maybe they sorted out their internal conflict of morals and sexual preference, or maybe they finally see an opportunity to be who they truly are in a more accepting society; whatever it is, that's why they one day come out of the closet.

[Psychotic]

Not a far stretch at all. I mean... honestly, dude... think about it. Would YOU choose to be gay? I mean, what makes people CHOOSE to be gay? What, you think any regular straight guy wakes up one day and thinks to himself, "You know... it'd be nice to make out with some men. Hell... let's ditch this whole girlfriend thing and start living my life for real. Men is where it's at!" Because taking into account how often that happens, I think THAT is a stretch--to say that so many straight men decide one day they don't like women and want men. There's no conscious choice on a straight man's part to just decide they want to have relationships with men.

None of that is correct. This happens more than on occasion, but most of the currently gay men I know were straight five years ago, . . or even a few months. Whether or not they STAY gay is a different story. But yeah, don't know where you got that from. Most people are socially pressured to think certain ways, regardless of what they really think. Strange things go on behind closed doors. . we're all secret deviants.

Society looks down upon it, some people absolutely despise it, you'll get death threats, you have to make love to men (an unpleasant experience for a straight man), and you don't really deal with women anymore.

That's because there is this derogatory attitude constantly side-glanced our way. Why are you saying that gay-love will be unpleasant to straight men? Deal with women?

Are you just typing fillers now?

I mean, just on the basis of that, taking into account no actual evidence of anything, I think one can safely conclude that there is something else that drives people to embrace homosexuality, like a sexual attraction to the same sex perhaps.

What old research are you looking at?

However, I DO see a reason why homosexuals, those that have an attraction for the same sex, might pretend like they're "normal."

Brittle fingernails would give you the same significance of being "abnormal." Counting someones sexual orientation as a big questional "entity" as itself is . . . sad.

There is every reason out there for them NOT to embrace their homosexuality for the sake of having a normal and peaceful life, even if they have to pretend to love.

Living your one life on earth in depression, curiousity, and pressure or even being ' under ' the pressure from others because you ' seem ' homosexual is a very, very dangerous thing. People who get backed into corners doe dangerous things.

And this is very insulting to the term ' love ' in general. You must understand little about love if you think it's something to pretend.

So tell me, how is THAT not a stretch?

I see your whole responce as a stretch.

[slingblader]

Not to jump in on someone else's response, but I think you missed Yv's point....

Originally Posted by Psychotic

None of that is correct. This happens more than on occasion, but most of the currently gay men I know were straight five years ago, . . or even a few months. Whether or not they STAY gay is a different story. But yeah, don't know where you got that from. Most people
are socially pressured to think certain ways, regardless of what they really think. Strange things go on behind closed doors. . we're all secret deviants.

His point wasn't that no one choose to be gay cuz everyone who isn't gay doesn't like people who are. He was saying that many people "pretend? to be straight due to the conflict it will cause in their life. You're last sentence basically is agreeing with him, that in reality, all of us can be completely different than how we appear. He was merely stating that being gay is probably predetermined, because socially, there is little reason to "switch" if you're perfectly happy as you are.

Originally Posted by Psychotic

That's because there is this derogatory attitude constantly side-glanced our way. Why are you saying that gay-love will be unpleasant to straight men? Deal with women?

Are you just typing fillers now?

It WOULD be unpleasant, or at least not enjoyable, for a man who is straight to have gay sex. Not because it's nasty or wrong, but because there is a lack of primal sexual attraction and instinct involved. But, it is in no way a negative statement against gay sex, one could say it would probably be unpleasant for a gay person to have sex with someone of the opposite sex.

Originally Posted by Psychotic

What old research are you looking at?

There was no research encased in that statement, it was one of logic: why would a straight person turn gay simply to do so (whether it's right or wrong is irrelevant, but) there is truly no advantage in doing so unless you are actually gay.

Originally Posted by Psychotic

Brittle fingernails would give you the same significance of being "abnormal." Counting someones sexual orientation as a big questional "entity" as itself is . . . sad.

The realities of society are what he was talking about. He was just saying it would be logical to hide it in many ways.

Originally Posted by Psychotic

Living your one life on earth in depression, curiousity, and pressure or even being ' under ' the pressure from others because you ' seem ' homosexual is a very, very dangerous thing. People who get backed into corners doe dangerous things.

Ill just say that I'm relatively certain Yv has nothing against homosexuality and has always said it's their choice not someone else's to make. It seems as if you're taking it as him arguing as homosexuality is bad, but I (think anyway)
am pretty sure that he's just being more logical and scientific in examining it than anything else.

Originally Posted by Psychotic

And this is very insulting to the term ' love ' in general. You must understand little about love if you think it's something to pretend.

He didn't say it should be that way, again only that it is understandable to do so for one's own personal peace and a stable life.

Originally Posted by Psychotic

I see your whole responce as a stretch.

I'll just say I disagree, and that he was probably pretty correct.