Prem meds

[Whist]

Originally Posted by Cem

No id rather have gunz to be for free.

Too bad all ppl went away from igunz , or i would have stayed there

They have to make a profit some how. If it didn't have a cash shop, the game would have even less updates and you probably wouldn't play it and neither would anybody else because hackers would over run it and bugs that cause huge gameplay issues (like the game not being playable) wouldn't be removed until months and months later.

It's not like premium items are that expensive anyways. Nor do any of them provide an advantage so great that wearing them will almost always ensure a win against somebody with out, yeah people who pay have an advantage. But you can't blame them...they PAID MONEY.
Not to mention the surveys you can take on ijji are an excellent way to get gcoins. I've gotten over 100 gcoins from surveys by now.

[mateusq]

Originally Posted by Whist

It loses strategy and becomes a luck game?

I beg to differ.
What makes people say it's a luck game is when they just flop around doing as I call "fish on land" style which is sword cancelation moves spammed to an insane degree.
See, it's NOT a luck game. Yes, there's always the element of luck but it's not like it's the biggest determining factor in a win or a loss unless of course, you simply spam DBF at people and RS in their general direction like most players do.
Sure you can argue that when you die because somebody aimed directly at you and shot you it's luck because you were unlucky they learned how to aim. Everything is "luck". But a true luck game is a game like Mario Party (the newest ones are the worst) where you cannot control how many spaces you move, you can only control how well you do in the randomly decided mi****mes which in no way ensures a win. THAT is luck. But in GunZ where you can control everything except for the player's pings and skill level...that's NOT a luck game...

When you actually aim your gun at people it becomes a skill game. And meds only make the game last longer. Sure there's the chance that you can chase somebody and kill them before they med, but most of the time they can hop around a corner and pop a med, but it's not like they can keep doing that.

Not to mention, a lot of people don't med when they're down a little hp and the med wont' over heal them, they wait until they're half hp or lower to do it resulting in them needing to spam meds to heal...these people usually run around a corner and spam meds...which is the perfect time to kill them. If you don't fly around the corner and get the pb, they whip out their sword and instantly hold block (99% of the time) which means you have the advantage because they're still in "holy crap defense mode" while you're in "dick stomping offensive mode" which means they aren't going to be dishing out a lot of damage, only trying to block yours.


I think the problem with meds is majority of the gunz population doesn't want to have a challenging fight or a fight that lasts long. They want to be able to go in to a CW, rip the opposing team a new asshole with-in 20 seconds and leave just to do it again. I don't even think most people are playing because they find gunz "fun" any more, they just find it a way to try to prove they're better than everybody.
The reason they use gunz is because it's NOT a luck game it takes skill. You don't see anybody playing mario party to prove they're better than everybody else..because they cannot control enough in the game to be able to win since there's so many ways for other players to get a special space or for them to get a really bad space or just miss all the special spaces ect.

I don't oppose meds. I hate that duelers **** a brick when somebody meds. I didn't realize that even though somebody is using up a decent amount of weight to hold meds sacrificing some total ap and hp for them it's still cheap to use them even though the person they're fighting is using all their weight for shotguns and the highest ap/hp armor.

When you play fish-on-land style I can see why it's a problem when people heal, because you spent the last 2 minutes RS spamming in their direction and got lucky enough to knock them down to where you'd probably win with another lucky random shot for decent damage but then when they heal you have to start all over again. That's why you learn how to COUNTER the med strategy by going on offensive which means getting right up on them so they can't run far enough away to med.

How do you counter a DBF spammer? You turtle.
How do you counter a turtle? You flip them or downslash and get them while they're attempting a stun.

Everything has a counter. For some reason people cannot figure out that you can counter meders by simply following them.
But they can also counter you by not medding and corner camping.

Which is why you need to know you're opponent.
It's not luck, it's brains and strategy.



Not to mention the fact that people pay monthly for premium meds. ijji isn't losing enough players because of premium meds that it would be more profitable to NOT sell them.

I know what you mean, but the strategy and gameplay were MUCH more interesting and cool without prem meds, do you agree? Just watch a Kumite replay from Olympus, that was the most amazing gunz epoch;;

With prem meds, strategy should be 999 times more complex than without it (which is out of human capacity) especially because different pings....

[lblay]

erm i dont agree with you prem meds save your life and if you dont have skill and have prem meds it wont help you because yoiull die no matter what =\

[STM1993]

Prem meds:

1. You paid for it, you SHOULD get the better benefits than those who haven't. If you haven't received that benefit you deserve, then something's very wrong and it would be the company's fault. So it's all fair.

2. Prem meds are not tactical? How is running and rearming yourself or your teammates not a strategy? How is using prems luck since it is an intentional thing rather than an accident? You're using actually your brains to help you win your battle by using meds.

3. Why complain when someone uses meds? They need to find a safe place to use meds or die. They still use up their weight which could be used for other items. It is your fault for not chasing the enemy and kill him quickly before he has the chance to rearm.

I agree with Whist, really.

[Fail9000]

Gunz has huge luck, i would say whole game is based on luck.

The reason i say the whole game is based on look is because that most luck comes from is what gunz is known alot for, Lag, huge amounts of luck in that, i shouldn't need to explain if your an experienced player, yeah sure theres lead etc but i'll name a few things where luck comes to play. This is from your screen point of view so here goes - getting bfly traped by someone who isn't even close to you, 3x normal massive distance, lucky shots from random aiming, falling back like you've slashed someones block when you havn't even seen a block till 3 seconds after you fall back, the list is so big i can't even be botherd to say more because for everyone of them theres an arguement.

But no it's not the biggest determining factor in the game, well to those who play the game 10 hours a day training on how to avoid things like this and self claiming themselves as "pro" when they are infact quite sad. see this game isn't about speed and aim anymore, it's about who can get who into the worst situation, be it getting massived or flipped and then taken advantage of untill death. this is where the lag takes place, you can get massived with lag, not know it so you won't block and then your doomed.

Theres also the amount of pellets that hit with a shotgun, even if you didn't try you could still get alot of pellets by accident due to random generator on shotgun, which is considered luck.

[STM1993]

GunZ is more skill-based. In fact, luck is almost negligible in a real GunZ battle.

Lag and luck are separate issues.

Luck is unavoidable. For lag, it can be manipulated to become something better or worse. Therefore, lag is NOT the same as luck, even though lag CAN be random.

What happens in lag? It is just a problem with connection. If you understand lag, you can manipulate it to your advantage, which is actually part of skill. Ghost stabbing, leading. The person is perhaps of a certain, constant ping. You simply estimate and aim at where he is most likely going to be. Then there's the completely frozen type of lag. That happens when the person's packets or whatever can't be sent (abused in N-Step).

What's a case of luck? The shotgun spread is luck, which can be said to be correct because there is no way to determine the shotgun spread and is completely random. There is no pattern. The same goes for quest items. Though you can tell what items CAN spawn and its percentage, you cannot tell what you WILL eventually get.

What if you talk about Spiking? That means a sudden change in ping. That's both luck and not luck. Something must be wrong with your internet that caused the spike, but you cannot tell how you will lag. Fine, I give that to you, but how many times do you see someone spike? If there are spikes, then something's wrong with someone's (maybe you) connection.

Now, if you call running into a bad situation like getting flipped, massived or whatever "luck", then you're very wrong. That's not luck. It CAN be prevented and is NOT random. That's called choice. In this world, it is about choices, actions, and consequences. It's no different in gaming ; it applies everywhere. If you had not done something, it would not have led to the next event.

A good example:

A shoots B. B draws his sword and block. A charges into B with a BF. B turtles, receives a massive, and then massive. A is killed.


Now, if A had not shot B, would B have blocked? Probably not. If B did not block, would A charge in? He might not have to. If A had tried to flip B instead of a BF, A might have defeated B easily. If B had not turtled, he will never receive a massive.



If you can actually prevent something and it is not random, it is purely choices and skills.

If the whole situation is completely unavoidable, random and unpredictable, then it is luck.





Anyway, back on topic:

prem meds are just simply tools in a game to aid you in the game.

[Fail9000]

Originally Posted by STM1993

GunZ is more skill-based. In fact, luck is almost negligible in a real GunZ battle.

Lag and luck are separate issues.

Luck is unavoidable. For lag, it can be manipulated to become something better or worse. Therefore, lag is NOT the same as luck, even though lag CAN be random.

What happens in lag? It is just a problem with connection. If you understand lag, you can manipulate it to your advantage, which is actually part of skill. Ghost stabbing, leading. The person is perhaps of a certain ping. You simply estimate and aim at where he is most likely going to be. Then there's the completely frozen type of lag. That happens when the person's packets or whatever can't be sent (abused in N-Step).

What's a case of luck? The shotgun spread is luck, which can be said to be correct because there is no way to determine the shotgun spread and is completely random. There is no pattern. The same goes for quest items. Though you can tell what items CAN spawn and its percentage, you cannot tell what you WILL eventually get.

Now, if you call running into a bad situation like getting flipped, massived or whatever "luck", then you're very wrong. That's not luck. It CAN be prevented and is NOT random. That's called choice. In this world, it is about choices, actions, and consequences. It's no different in gaming ; it applies everywhere. If you had not done something, it would not have led to the next event.


If you can actually prevent something and it is not random, it is purely choices and skills.

If the whole situation is completely unavoidable, random and unpredictable, then it is luck.

[Sarcasm]Yeah, okay then.[/Sarcasm]

If every thing is avoidable and we get to this stage where people will avoid everything and nothing will happen, theres luck and theres screw ups and theres luck that helps guide these screwups.

even though lag CAN be random.

Anything random has luck, therefore you just typed aload of **** for nothing.

I'm just going to give a little example again where lag can end up killing you with luck.

Okay say your fighting with someone with about 60 ping, you go in to bfly the enemy because he's vulnerable, he slashes you by flash stepping to get away by accident, because on your screen you didn't even see the enemy flash step yet, you some how gain a massive not knowing how you got it, you don't realise because your main focus is to bfly rape him, you trigger the massive by accident, you are now the one vulnerable, and the enemy just rs'd you with 2 pb's.

That's luck, yes you could of prevented it by being more alert, but your performence and speed of butterfly to catch someone is so important that it all happens in a split second and your already pressing fire about 5 times a second, the same button that tirggers the screw up.


There are many ways lag plays a huge role in luck, if you don't agree your just an arrogant bastard who takes gunz way too seriously and probaly worships his hardcore training for this game.

[STM1993]

Alright, fine by me, just expressing my opinion about this whole thing. But one thing though:

Originally Posted by Fail9000

There are many ways lag plays a huge role in luck, if you don't agree your just an arrogant bastard who takes gunz way too seriously and probaly worships his hardcore training for this game.

Assumption fails. I don't even practice playing GunZ (now I'm not playing, I'm only wandering the forums) and I don't even think I can match up to most players in terms of skill.

Okay, let's not change this into an off-topic flame thread. Back to prem meds!

Originally Posted by STM1993

<With some edits>

Prem meds:

1. You paid for it, you SHOULD get the better benefits than those who haven't. If you haven't received that benefit you deserve, then something's very wrong and it would be the company's fault. So it's all fair.

2. Prem meds are not tactical? How is running and rearming yourself or your teammates not a strategy? You're using actually your brains to help you win your battle by using meds.

3. Why complain when someone uses meds? They need to find a safe place to use meds or die. They still use up their weight which could be used for other items. It is your fault for not chasing the enemy and kill him quickly before he has the chance to rearm.

[Divine Rose]

Prem med or no prem med wouldn't make a difference in ijji since strategy is basically the same.

i.e.
Prem meds: let's rush in and do as much damage since we have meds to heal us back to full

No prem meds: let's rush in and do as much damage since they have narnian ping and we won't get hit

(Notice I didn't say, "Let's rush into a 1v4", there's a diff.)

Either way, it's the same way in all versions pretty much. Just, KGunZ is 5 mins of the revvers fighting each other, then 3 on each team rushing in when everyone's low. Works the same with or without pmeds.

Btw -- Why are you putting BRGunZ and KGunZ in the same sentence? Skill level between the two are on a whole different playing field.

[·Melodramatic·]

Prem meds are a huge advantage, but it pisses everyone off....

[nomiS]

You pay you get a huge advantage, supply and demand. Selling pmeds was an executive decision made by ijji with has positely affected the company

[Faggotry]

Originally Posted by mateusq

Do you like prem meds?

90% of Brazil and lots of korean hates prem meds, because game loses strategy and become a luck game not a skill or inteligence game

What do you think about it? Can we change prem meds power?

u know, the only ppl that will say they dont like prem meds are the ppl that dont have them

y r they so popular in ijji? bcuz they all luv them

[mateusq]

BrGunz and Kgunz have low pings, and I know that lots of players from these versions dont like prem meds...

Every players has prem meds in brazil, and it doesnt expires (We dont need to buy again), but its not a discussion about who has or hasnt, Im trying to discuss how they make game sux.

If we had prem meds for bounty it would sux too

[koolaid_g]

I say, have a "No special item" gametype...
Including: Meds, ammo clips, rings, coins, nades, etc...

OR being a mouse wheeler (with a broken mouse wheel... >.<) delete meds 4EB4R!!!

[mateusq]

No.. they must sell cash items to earn money, but prem meds are overpowered...