Suggestion- gun mode- Crouch and lean addition

[Raijin1999]

One of the bigger problems I noticed with the gameplay is that the higher levels seem to HAVE to use kstyle, or many kstyle techniques and manipulations of model animations (switching) to take people down. I hate Kstyle, and am much more interested in the guns aspect (i like melee, but a deadeye shot from a revolver is fun too).

My suggestion is for folks who are in gun mode (guns drawn, so the shift button doesn't do anythign), to be able to crouch with the shift key.


You would be able to stand just a slight bit and lean while holding crouch and shift, and pressing and holding A or D (left strafe, or right strafe). You could pull off pop-up shots if you were a low level player trying to survive, or just favored guns over melee.


I also had the idea of a half roll that would be executed by double tapping the strafe keys while in lean mode. This would execute a tumble roll to the left or right, but you would only travel half the distance of a regular double tap roll from the standing position.


This roll would mainly be used if you were moving from one piece of cover to another, or moving away from cover that has a window/opening to dodge a grenade blast. More importantly, it can't be used if you're in the air, and must be executed from a crouch. Could also save people from moving too far and falling into a hole, or just helps being stealthy without exposing yourself. If you continued to hold the crouch+lean buttons after the small roll, you'd re-enter the crouch lean, or you could just enter a crouch by releasing A or D. That way you can move right into limited visibility if you need to.

Pure crouch mode (just holding crouch, no leaning) could also increase accuracy for bastardly weapons. (Machine guns to say the least)
I'm in the Marine Corps (new recruit training), and have already fired off a few shots from prone, crouching, and standing positions at a firing range gathering we had a few months back. The lower you are to the ground, (and with the right support), the more accurate the shots you make while maintaining the least amount of visibility to the enemy. I think this would be a great and welcomed feature if it was included in GunZ. Right now it's all pretty run and gun, but a few extra options could certainly do no harm - and I don't believe this would unbalance gameplay, I think it was actually help rebalance things for gun users (or Estyle players).

[GenoReborn]

This wont happen, this would change the whole game at its core. Anyways, the thing that keeps people playing gunz is the competitive play that comes from k-style.

[Raijin1999]

*sigh* Another one.

Okay, please explain to me why the core of a game called GunZ, is Kstyle?
Is there a hidden meaning in that letter "Z" that i'm not catching?

And how is being able to crouch and lean going to effect the core of the game? That sounds absurdly silly to say, so please explain.

It's like you're saying "If you don't use Kstyle, this game's not for you", and i'm pretty sure MAIET would agree, that's bullcrap.

[GenoReborn]

Honestly you havent been playing Gunz for long have you? Igunz is derived from kgunz, and the thing that makes Kgunz so damn popular is K-style, thats all there is to it. Unless Kgunz changes, there wont be changes to igunz. And i never implied "If you don't use Kstyle, this game's not for you". If you want more of a tactical shooter gunz is not for you.

[Raijin1999]

I played for a few months, before I stopped. (Hacking issues) It's not that I can't Kstyle easy, I caught on to it pretty quick. But that's not the problem.

The fear o' it. As corny as it sounds, seems true; proves true all the time.

Because being able to duck and lean is THAT overpowering, THAT unbalancing?

And you still haven't given examples for how this would be so insanely unbalancing.
That's what i'm looking for.

[berserkuh]

Originally Posted by -KO-

Its so useless.
Ok lets crouch and lean while super fast K-stylers just dash at us dashing around where we cant hit them, so they can get close to us and kill us in 1 second. To make this update somewhat useful. You would have to allow no k-stylers into your room.

I agree with that. Ducking usually intends slower speeds. I, myself, am a true fan of the Half-Step. Now, if you'd duck, you'd be just unoffensive target practice for me. And I SUCK at GunZ. So imagine others.

[dave_0824]

Originally Posted by Raijin1999

*sigh* Another one.

Okay, please explain to me why the core of a game called GunZ, is Kstyle?
Is there a hidden meaning in that letter "Z" that i'm not catching?

And how is being able to crouch and lean going to effect the core of the game? That sounds absurdly silly to say, so please explain.

It's like you're saying "If you don't use Kstyle, this game's not for you", and i'm pretty sure MAIET would agree, that's bullcrap.

..........you dont have to be a k-styler to be good >.> i have a friend who just makes up his moves and pretty much owns every k-styler he meets........(even me T_T)

Originally Posted by -KO-

Its so useless.
Ok lets crouch and lean while super fast K-stylers just dash at us dashing around where we cant hit them, so they can get close to us and kill us in 1 second. To make this update somewhat useful. You would have to allow no k-stylers into your room.

i totally agree

Player 1 : ok they're pro k-stylers let's duck and lean and move slowly

Player 2 : yea so slow that we will be sitting ducks to extremely fast butterflying people with shotguns but since its an update its cool!

[Raijin1999]

Thanks, somewhat more insightful posts.

So I can see how it'd be useless against kstylers, I could see that from the start; that's not the point I was trying to make, so let me clarify.

I don't like Kstyle, I don't like the way it works (pulling off moves by switching up animation lag should never have been turned into a style, but from what it seems this is what happened during early betas while the product was far from finished. Since the exploiting seemed popular, they just never gor rid of it, and that in my opinion, is bullpoo). Aside from the aesthetic difference of opinion (it could look and play so much better if it was more pro' done)- I just don't like the heavy emphasis on melee kstyle is about. (Can't do it too well with daggers, so dagger uses loose out a bit)

Yeah, I know you can shoot with kstyle, but the point is, it ain't no way to gunsling. (And I don't like having to 'butterfly' around someone to pop a shot off.) - my suggestion is to improve the gunplay. The gunplay aspect is pretty simple at the moment, while the melee aspect is much faster. I wasn't planning on using the crouch/C-lean/C-roll to take on kstylers. :\
It's for those that like to shoot at each other. The way you see in action movies; just like the game is advertised in its wallpapers and intro. The roll is nice, the roll+reload is awesome, the wallrunning with guns and shooting or reloading is awesome, but with a blade you can do waaay more than you can with a gun. The above were some suggestions put forth to spice up gunplay, add a new element to the game ((which from responses given so far, don't seem to alter the so called 'core of the gameplay' at any rate described)).


Okay, so for those that have played Jedi Outcast/Academy (im making this similarity because it's the only thing I can think of that has guns and sword combat very similar to this game in terms of gameplay mechanics); do you feel the crouch and lean feature is uncalled for? I mean, people do like trying to shoot jedi with a blaster just to nail them while they try to approach you with a lightsaber. Shooting them in the back, popping up in front of their face from behind something and firing the flak cannon (shotgun) before they notice you, etc. - it's part of what made Jango Fett so friggin' cool.


*notice - i'm in no way saying this is the only thing that made Jango so uber. I do acknowledge there were other factors too.


So let me rephrase the question:

What is it about adding more depth to the gunplay that you just don't like?
And do you feel the gunplay should be tinkered with at all anymore in such a way?

And if you do feel it should be tinkered with, let me hear those ideas too!

[berserkuh]

Oh, God, THE GAME IS FINE AS IT IS. THE ONLY ENHANCES CAN BE GRAPHICAL, BUT THAT'S IT!

[Atlakai]

k-style makes the game more fun, due to the SPEED and PRESENTATION of the style. other styles include running and shooting, then run around the map, shoot 2 bullets and run all the round again. Sounds to me you want a fps game. Maybe Americas army, i used to play that, that should suit your needs.

As of you hating k-style because its abusing the animation, uhh, where u getting at? i mean, wow. it hurts people that the animation is cut, cant you tell the characters arnt normal? they can dash, fly around, even hang on a wall with a skinny sword, im sure they can do alot more if they can do all this.

without k-style, the game would be slow, boring, long waited rounds and just not worth playing. If you want a 3rd person game that shoots guns, go play tomb raider or hitman. Who wants to watch 2 guys take 1 shot at each other then spend 5mins running around?



/gg

[Raijin1999]

"Sounds to me you want a fps game"

:| I mentioned somewhere I was already in the Marine Corps. America's Army is up in my face. I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "FINE AS IS" because i'm sure people have been demanding quest mode for some time now. Are you saying you're fine without it? Hell, naw- I doubt that.


"Who wants to watch 2 guys take 1 shot at each other then spend 5mins running around?"
People say the same thing about Soccer. :\
And equally, the same could be said for people who don't want to see people 'hover' around each other 10 times before a shotgun blast rings out and one drops dead. Some people enjoy the 'form' behind gunplay. I know it's less popular considering it's more or less feasible in reality, compared to what you can do with melee weapons in the game.

Half of the times I bait a Kstyler into my guns they call me a sprayer. When I decide to play it their way and beat them at their own game, i'm a lag-spiker. Nucking futs. :P All I suggested was the ability to crouch, lean, and pull off a shorter roll than the long tumble, (not replace the existing tumble).

Anybody play Metal Gear Solid 2? It had its fps aiming, but usually you never were required to aim in first person. You could lean around corners, fire from the lean position, crouch, etc. It was great. Raiden even got a sword, though sadly, it was like, for the last 8% of the gameplay only. Ever play .Killswitch? That game was no fps, but it played beautifully with the whole cover&fire gunplay aspect. I mean, dudes. There are smoke grenades in this game. Given kstyle, and even just some aspects of kstyle, does anybody really find them effective outside of using guns only? Kstyler would just slash through the smoke, or circle it until something moved. The term sprayer shouldn't even exist in a game that gives you a friggin' SAW, dual wield smg action, and rifles. And don't tell me kstylers don't use them either, i've seen them break 'tradition' and run around and shoot people just the same. It's more variety for you, more ways to customize your gameplay style. All I keep hearing is, "They wouldn't do it. It's too unbalancing. Guns suck. Stop beating the horse. Snakes on a plane."

The unmentionable stated there were similar threads in the past that were shot down. (Gee) That also means that somebody had also agreed in the past. I guess i'll have to hunt down those for answers if they haven't already been deleted yet. This one probably will too, didn't know it was a dupe'. Sorry for that.


And the question still stands:

What is it about adding more depth to the gunplay that you just don't like?
And do you feel the gunplay should be tinkered with at all anymore in such a way?

And if you do feel it should be tinkered with, let me hear those ideas too!

[Arcane Azmadi]

Originally Posted by berserkuh

Oh, God, THE GAME IS FINE AS IT IS. THE ONLY ENHANCES CAN BE GRAPHICAL, BUT THAT'S IT!

You have no imagination, no ambition, no creativity, no drive and no tact. I'm very glad you have nothing whatsoever to do with the development of this game.

I don't know about leaning (that's more a 1st person shooter thing) or half-rolling (probably a bit over complex) but I'm all in favour of crouching. A constant bugbear of mine is when I get into gunfights in the backstreets of the Town map (you know, the long street with the boxes in it and the loop running around half way up) and I try to take cover behind the boxes. Doesn't work, half my body's showing. I'd LOVE to be able to crouch down while bullets whine past me and spang off the terrain, then pop up, unleash a few shots and dive for the next piece of cover as a grenade sails in my direction. Also, sometimes I find it hard to find the right angle to shoot at opponents through webs of terrain (from the top floor of Mansion against opponents on the first floor for example). Being able to crouch would allow me to minutely adjust my sniping angle and give me a better shot. All for it.

I also hate k-style because it isn't the way the game was originally intended to be played. The game was originally supposed to be like a cross between The Matrix and Prince of Persia, where you can roll around firing wildly until you close to melee range and go for the blades. Instead it's become a flying contest. YOU'RE TAKING ADVANTAGE OF A GLITCH. The slash/cancel thing gets around programming which is meant to inhibit this very style of play- the enforced neutrality after wall jumping for example was intentional and k-styling is just taking advantage of a loophole in it. It's been left in the game because it can be abused by sufficiently skilled players to totally wax anyone who doesn't play that way and let them feel good about themselves for it. If Maiet tried to take it out now, there'd be a huge uproar from all the players who'd suddenly find themselves getting wasted by people who prefer to rely on their wits, reflexes, accuracy and guts to see them through a bout (like me and Raijin1999). So we're basically stuck with it.

But I simply can't stand people who say that "K-style is the only way" and think that anything that isn't part of k-style shouldn't even be considered. No-one would force you to use a crouch function even if it were implemented, so what's your flamin' problem? And if you think all non-k-stylers are fodder by default, I'd like to see you prove that in the ring!

And as for saying "if you don't like the game the way it is, go play another game", well... this isn't even worth responding to. Up yours. We like Gunz, the way WE play it, and we aren't about to stop just becaus things arent perfect.

I'll play my damn way, thank you very much. And if we have ideas as to how our game can be improved, we'll thank you not to knock them just because they aren't part of your game.

Sorry if I'm coming across rather aggressive here. I'm not trying to offend any one- as a eurostyler I just feel rather offended myself.

[Zim-Zum]

Oh my ****ing god.

People are SO against this idea when it won't even effect them as they claim?

What's wrong? Scared of an advantage over your precious k-style?

[Atlakai]

"I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "FINE AS IS" because i'm sure people have been demanding quest mode for some time now"

i didnt say "FINE AS IS" so you Fail.
And i am fine not having quest mode, its over-rated, i mean its good, but gets boring quick. Those who are twats cries about quest, those more experienced will enjoy it in igunz but can wait. So you fail on that one too.

"People say the same thing about Soccer."

"Anybody play Metal Gear Solid 2? It had its fps aiming, but usually you never were required to aim in first person. You could lean around corners, fire from the lean position, crouch, etc. It was great."

Why we going on other games? Gimmie a video of snake doing half step and flying around on the walls and ill get ur point. 4th fail.



I dont see how you can compare a real life game where the ball is almost used all the time, to a pc game where 2 people stair at the pixals on the walls. 3rd Fail. Your doing great so far.

"What is it about adding more depth to the gunplay that you just don't like?"

No. Learn about the community, i think u need more experience in the forums then in game. i wont fail you on this one

"And if you do feel it should be tinkered with, let me hear those ideas too!"

If you carrying on with suggestions that was made 2 years prior to this then ill start tinkering with your head.

U scored 1/5 that means u failed at life 4 times and need counciling, for only £50 a week, i can help you get back to normal.

[Atlakai]

ok, i thought u said i said "fine as it is" so ill give u a tick for that, u still failed 3 times tho. Double post ftw?