Breaker Shotguns Imbalanced, what should Maiet do?

[x_ChaOs_x]

Well, from my experience with good players, it seems that carrying dual shotguns is significantly deadlier than any other combo, even with revs. Regardless of style,the dash-shoot-dash game favors high dmg hi delay weapons like the shotgun.

It also seems that when players get tired of getting killed and want to fight back, they re-equip - guess what - dual shotguns, usually breakers (the avengers are fine cause of low ammo per clip).

One just needs to go expert or elite channel to see the vast majority spamming shotguns, especially when they get serious.

It's also very hard to use automatic weapons effectively at high level cause shottie spam totally beats them at short and med range...It also renders the automatic weapon user too vulnerable to enemy fire.

Sgs can be spammed to fire at revolver speed, and they do double damage at short range, are easier to hit with, and even at med range they can easily do the 50 dmg per shot(considering half the pellets hit), same as a direct hit with dual-revolvers or a direct hit with a rocket launcher, which weighs 50% more and has a smaller clip size.

The imbalance is so obvious that i can't really understand why this issue hasn't been tackled...

Maiet is preparing a new patch, probably they'll just patch xtrap, but this issue should also be tackled (this is a beta version....any of u seen a beta where game balance isnt adressed?). I say lets debate this issue until we come out with changes most of us agree, then make a series of petitions throughout several forums.

Please vote!
If you don't agree with any of the proposed balance changes, chose other and post it!
If (for some reason ) you don't think shotguns are too powerful just vote "nothing"!

EDIT:
By shared delay i mean:
Keep in memory the delay between shots on each weapon the player is carrying so it isn't reset when players change weapons. (if cooldown= 1 sec, max spam cooldown would be 0.5 sec)


EDIT2:
ARticle about balance by Tom Cadwell, from Blizzard entertainment:

http://www.gamedev.net/reference/art...rticle1765.asp

I'll emphasise this:

""""""QUOTE""""""""""


Sid Meier once said, "A game is a collection of interesting choices". It follows that game elements being out of balance and thereby eliminating choices detracts from the gameplay. Ideally, a game should be a series of choices, ending with victory of defeat or some other end condition. Sometimes, some choices will become unquestionably the only choice, or definitely not a valid choice. If there is only one valid choice at some point, but the game hasn't ended, there is a play balance problem.

Nearly all situations commonly referred to as imbalances can be boiled down to a choice reduction. For instance, in a strategy game, if a particular unit is sufficiently over-effective for its cost, it could make another unit completely useless in most or all circumstances. Not only does this situation leave a player with one real choice (where's the choosing?), but it also leaves the player with numerous irrelevant distractions. These distractions actually detract from the gameplay further by obfuscating it and adding player frustration to the mix.


""""""END OF QUOTE""""""""""

[·Bat]

Psh-ha.

Honestly, I agree full-hearted with you.

But... I KNOW nothing is going to happen about the balance.

~

I find it disgusting that MAIET chose not to fix the power balance between the weapons.

I can understand them wanting to make kstyle hardcoded, because it made the game unique and challenging.

But... there really is a huge indifference between the way weapons work now.

The sword user has too much power.

What I've wanted, as a thread Nexusstar had... is dagger buffing. To even out the sword/dagger problem.

It's the same situation with shotgun.

The original balancing was made for a glitch-free way of playing. Meaning... daggers were the only ones that could move around and hit, while swords were meant to stay still.

Making a BALANCE.

The original balancing for shotguns, was so that they had high delay so they couldnt shoot very fast, so they had high damage instead.

Making a BALANCE.

K-style was invented. Making swords able to move around and slash. Daggers... remain the same.

making it NOT BALANCE.

K-style was invented. Making shotguns able to shoot faster with lower delays. Other weapons... remianed the same.

making it NOT BALANCE.





I don't see WTF their problem is. ~.~

Buff up our other weapons... so that this game reaches its full potential.

[Deathguise/Closure]

They aren't imbalanced. Shotguns do increasingly weaker damage from a distance, revs keep the same amount of damage from any distance but are harder to aim with, rockets splash etc etc. every weapon has its advantages and dis-advantages.

I bet you 10$ everyone that has decent aim would use revs if there was no lag. Shotguns just seem powerfull because of the big amount of lag iGunZ has.

[x_ChaOs_x]

Your last reply got stuck on the other thread i mistakenly made without poll ._., ask mod to transfer it here!

And btw, deathguise, shotguns do less dmg than revs at long distance yes, but they still do some damage, and they are so much more effective at short and med ranges that the majority picks breaker shotguns over revolvers anyday, even with low pings(if the ping is low they can own the rev guy by closing in with sg).

[Deathguise/Closure]

Then I guess the majority fights closerange? Just stay at a distance would be a good resolve, no?

And yea they do some damage at a distance...like 2 <_<

[EyeAMFast]

Nothing, i think shotguns are ok now.

[INVuRTS]

Not always possible to keep your distance.

Ever fight me in Ruin? You'll be staring down the barrel of my R7, thanks.

Someone people learn to love "urban assault" style matches (SCO beta in-joke, seriously, don't ask), but don't want to join the rampant wave of semi-literate pinoys who conform to every sway, swirl and ebb in the GunZ fashion.

[Yuna]

Hmmm, i think u just have to learn to fight better and get used to the current "balance" of the weps. Every wep has its advantages and disadvantages like stated ^. =l

[INVuRTS]

Well, then, I demand they kill the shared delay on grenades, and lover the explosion time to 1 second.

See what I'm getting at? It'd be equally overpowered.

[Yuna]

U need aim for grenades too. Grenades arent for spamming, unless ur playing DM or just some noob. =l

[INVuRTS]

You don't see the comparison, do you?

Shotguns have one second delay, naturally.

They were originally designed as opportunist weapon. Score a CURITICARU PAANCHI on some nib who didn't know you were around that next corner.

They weren't designed for you to sit there dwaving them around like a spastic tap-dancer firing off 60 rounds per second.

Similar thing with nades.

They're an opportunist weapon.

Some people are bum-rushing you?

Quick, through a choke point, and lay a grenade on the way through.

Suddenly, only two people are chasing you! Woohoo!

Then some people found out how to spam grenades.

MAIET patched this, so that delay was shared.

Grenades are weaker, they deal SPLASH, and they're way, way slower.

So I demand that they be equally unbalanced as shotguns, kay?

[zboy603]

Shotties are overpowered now, thanks to K Style and overall spam. Just walking at someone switching between two shotties kills you easy unless you find cover.

[UdonNoodle]

the shotgun isnt imba to be used to full power u gotta be very damn close but powerful the spray is annoying from it but the rifle wins over that hands down

shottys nowdays are all purpose weapons they have spray to deal with lag but can deal heavy point blank damage however at ranged spraying the rifle rules the shotgun within seconds with a maxwell its like 20 bullets to kill somone and has 80 delay so its pritty fast and super accurate

with point damage revs go right into the health which make them more useful in many ways eg. shoot them twice with revs then hit with rocket or somthing

shotguns arnt so unballanced they are just the easiest to use


also im very tired while writing this so if its hard to read thats why

[x_ChaOs_x]

Originally Posted by Chinmoku

You don't see the comparison, do you?

Shotguns have one second delay, naturally.

They were originally designed as opportunist weapon. Score a CURITICARU PAANCHI on some nib who didn't know you were around that next corner.

They weren't designed for you to sit there dwaving them around like a spastic tap-dancer firing off 60 rounds per second.

Similar thing with nades.

They're an opportunist weapon.

Some people are bum-rushing you?

Quick, through a choke point, and lay a grenade on the way through.

Suddenly, only two people are chasing you! Woohoo!

Then some people found out how to spam grenades.

MAIET patched this, so that delay was shared.

Grenades are weaker, they deal SPLASH, and they're way, way slower.

So I demand that they be equally unbalanced as shotguns, kay?

Nice comparison, if Maiet put shared cooldown on nades, they can add the shared cooldown to breakers.

Still, the "do Nothing" is winning with 52%

I'll make simpler quotes of T. Cadwells article ._.

""""quote"""""
Sid Meier once said, "A game is a collection of interesting choices".

Nearly all situations commonly referred to as imbalances can be boiled down to a choice reduction
""""quote"""""

How can you guys say sg's are not overpowered when 90% of the players use them when they want to play seriously.

From my experience as an above average player, if find good opponents WAY deadlier when they use dual shotties. I also find them easier to kill when i also use shotgun, and i find it almost impossible to kill very good kstylers with dual shotgun while using automatics. They running into a rifle burst when they are bored or just fooling around doesn't count...

[Malbodiensis]

They should ban your stupid ass