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10-10-2007, 09:32 PM
| #1 (permalink) |
| Gunzfactorian Guardian  |  a REALLy large map?? Kindly read the whole post before posting, thank you very much. Well, i've always wondered what gunz would be like if the maps were all 10x larger We could play 100 people dms and it would be soo cool, almost like an mmo. It would totally expand on the idea of gunz being an mmofps, rather than a 16 player kind of game. With the custom map compiler released by legion, would this be possible? Or would it lag? I personally don't think so because if i'm not wrong, gunz has a rendering radius such that it only renders the part which are within a certain distance from you. Meaning you wouldn't need to render every part of the map, just the parts which are closer to you. The possibilities of large maps are really limitless. It would redefine gunz, we could even have clan wars where entire CLANS could fight each other, not just a 4v4.. That would really be epic. Does any pro person here know if this could be done? It would really be fun. Of course, we could still have our small little matches in hall and all that, but really, a really large map would be so friggin cool. Wait, can i ask, does anyone know if 100 players in a big room will cause deadly lag? What if they are spaced rather far apart from each other? Then the game client wouldn't need to render the models of people who are too far away. Some people may think that it's not possible to keep 100 players apart from each other, since people like to stick together and starting shooting, but even then, there will be those who are smart enough to avoid that one big crowd so they don't get instantly killed. There will also be those who will keep their distance and snipe away with revs or other weapons. What i'm trying to say is that people won't be that dumb to join a huge crowd just so that they get killed and dced due to lag. Summary: 100 player dms may cause lag if all the 100 players come together and start shooting rockets, but most likely players will be smart enough to not want to lag and get dced, so they will not do the above.. Therefore, lag due to large number of players huddling together in a DM will most likely not be a problem. (NOTE: only applies to dms because in dms, it's every man for his own, but in tdms, huddling will be more common as it increases killing effeciency. I propose that we only have a max of 60 players for a tdm, and a max of 100 players for a dm.) Another thing is, players with semi bad computers can simply NOT play these huge rooms. I'm not making huge rooms a must here, just suggesting that they make it possible, so that people who don't lag, and who have rather good computers can enjoy this game to the fullest.  NOTE: This suggestion is mostly targeted at low ping people who do not lag to each other, who have good quality computers that can render 3d graphics fast, and will not lag when having many connections to other players. If not, people may lag so badly that it will be pointless to play such games. My main question is: Is it possible to make a map of such a large size (meaning theoretically possible), what problems will prevent such a thing from implemented, and what solutions are there for these problems? UPDATE: If i'm not wrong, somebody at drgunz is currently working on a 64 player tdm system, when it does come out, we will be able to see if any of these problems occur. Current problems: 1. Lag due to number of internet connections This will most likely happen if you have a very slow internet connection. However, it is unknown whether it will cause so much lag for the average player that the games will not be worth playing as of now, so i suppose if it ever comes out, we could test it? 2. Lag due to rendering time. This is one of the major problems. The only things i can think of now that will solve this is that a. Upgrade your computer. If your computer can't render 16 players without lagging badly, it's time to get an upgrade anyway.. b. Lower the quality of the models. There are 2 ways to look at this. Gunz has crap graphics. Lowering the quality will make it look worse, but on the other hand, if you are looking for good graphics, gunz isn't your cup of tea. c. Players will most likely avoid huge masses of people to prevent themselves from lagging too. d. The use of larger maps will make the lag not that bad, because there is more space to move around. Misconceptions: Whole map is loaded at once when you are playing. Nope, only the parts which are close to you are loaded. For example, if you look at a hacker with insane massive, you will start lagging, but if you look away, you won't lag as much. Gunz loads some stuff that is within your range, and some stuff which is within your sight. Therefore not the whole map is loaded, but only the parts which are close to you. Peer to peer won't work, only peer to server would work Arguments: 1. People already have so high ping to me (distance lag), it won't be worth playing. Really, i don't think anyone enjoys games where people have high ping due to distance lag. I think the only good solution to this is to play with people close to you. 2. Peer to server is much faster than peer to peer Actually, no.. more so for us sg/ph/my, maybe not so for americans, because the servers are based in america. Number of people is proportional to the amount of lag. Wrong, this is not true. It's the number of people who are close enough to you such that your client renders them that is proportional to the amount of lag. Players which are on the other side of the map do not influence your connection speed significantly. Size of the map is proportional to the amount of lag Again, this is not true, because not the whole map is rendered while you are playing, only the parts which are close enough to you are rendered. If this is implemented anywhere, it's definitely going to be optional. No one is going to be forced to play huge maps. I appreciate feedback, but please do not state your whims and fancies here, like how small maps give you orgasms, but instead try to state opinions that can be applied to the general population. Btw, for those who say it will generate too much lag, please check out this game: SPACE COWBOY Space Cowboy Online - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Spacecowboy. MMOFPS + MMORPG (meaning you can kill players to level up exactly like in gunz. Meaning you point to shoot using your crosshair, not click on target to attack. The monsters in the game are just neutral flying craft that you can kill to get exp and stuff) with more than 100+ players playing in the same map It has better graphics better sound you get to fly And all that.. without significant lag. also, mothership wars involve the entire SERVER's players fighting against each other, and it doesn't generate crazy lag, the lag is tolerable. Last edited by lentan; 10-13-2007 at 12:04 PM. |
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10-10-2007, 10:04 PM
| #9 (permalink) |
| Gunzfactorian Guardian | Re: a REALLy large map?? omg, you didn't read my entire post did you?? I already said that it probably wouldn't lag. For me, joining a 16 player hall game takes as long as joining a 16 player dungeon game, so i suppose if that's the case, the size of the map doesn't really affect lag. Maybe the 100 player thing would make it lag a little, but i thought gunz just renders those players close to you? @the guy who talked about gangbanging... Yeah, just that the scale of that will be much larger. I'm talking about maps where real WARS will take place, not just little street fights.. Imagine a war, spartan style, (ok, maybe not 300, just 30v30), that would be so fun! We don't want little fights where 2 people take down another 2 people. It should be a place where everywhere is blazing with gunfire. We could have tankers, snipers, lurers, mass killers, explosives experts, real group tactics (like taking a detour and sandwiching an enemy or something.) Last edited by lentan; 10-10-2007 at 10:14 PM. |
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10-10-2007, 10:22 PM
| #12 (permalink) |
| Gunzfactorian Hero  Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,246
 | Re: a REALLy large map?? You see those people with semi bad computers or internets in 16 player games? They already get 300+ ping. If they had a really crappy computer or dial up, it's already over 1k ping in a 16 player game. And you'll rarely find a 16 player game without a few laggers. And this is totally disregarding distance lag. 60 players + laggers + distance = auto phail. |
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10-10-2007, 10:25 PM
| #14 (permalink) | |
| Gunzfactorian Hero Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,246
| Re: a REALLy large map?? Quote:
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