Actual Melee Speed

STM1993 · 02-12-2008, 07:38 AM

Actually, if you look closely at the delays of all the melee weapons (taking the best of each melee):

Sword: 329
Kodachis: 260
Daggers: 346

So the melee weapon with the fastest attack speed is actually the kodachis, then the sword, then the slowest is actually the dagger. This is especially with Void Step (Quick Slash) and BF used by K-Style for swords and kodachis, which CAN be faster than dagger stabs.

Then why do people say the order of speed in all melee weapons goes as follows from fastest to slowest: Dagger, Kodachis, Sword?

This is because Dagger has the best dash-cancelling ability and makes you most unpredictable and more agile. You can walk around while stabbing (basically you can stab almost anytime) unlike swords or kodachis. You can stab when you are dashing, walking, jumping... and cancel out of dashes if you like.

But swords and kodachis cannot do the same. They have to follow through the whole animation before they can move or dash again, while daggers can just cancel their way out.

People talk about the overall speed and agility. That is why Dagger is considered the fastest weapon, while kodachis are in the middle and swords the slowest.

Do you agree with me or did I make a mistake somewhere? Discuss.

**Nosedagger** · 02-12-2008, 07:41 AM

What speed are you talking about? High frequencies of stabs/slashes or vanilla land speed (a la E-Lunge)?

STM1993 · 02-12-2008, 07:55 AM

Overall speed, how fast is the weapon in terms of movement speed and attack speed o.O

**Nosedagger** · 02-12-2008, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by STM1993

Overall speed, how fast is the weapon in terms of movement speed and attack speed o.O

Those two are separate values.

However, I'd say dagger is best. With a decent dagger, you can meleetrap fairly easily compared to butterflying. Dagger Quick Stick (and I haven't seen proof of the Sword version being able to be performed consistently) is fastest vertical climb in GunZ. Extended Lunge is fastest horizontal movement from Point A to Point B.

Dagger is bset.

Darkwolf11289 · 02-12-2008, 02:57 PM

My opinion, dagger is called fastest because people think it is fast since it doesn't have the combo delay that swords and kodachi have.

TheOneX · 02-12-2008, 03:03 PM

If daggers could block it problly be slower...
but.
it cant ^.^

Kiedo · 02-12-2008, 03:33 PM

The delay you are referring to only measures the time between each attack. You are forgetting that the Dagger actually takes less time to complete a stab than the sword takes to complete a slash.

Lt Gen U S G · 02-12-2008, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nosedigger

Those two are separate values.

However, I'd say dagger is best. With a decent dagger, you can meleetrap fairly easily compared to butterflying. Dagger Quick Stick (and I haven't seen proof of the Sword version being able to be performed consistently) is fastest vertical climb in GunZ. Extended Lunge is fastest horizontal movement from Point A to Point B.

Dagger is bset.

I can quick stick with kods/sword pretty easily. It's pretty much the same as a dagger, but it just doesn't increase your climbing speed lol. You have to actually time it instead of spamming it like with a dagger.

I_GO_BOOM · 02-12-2008, 04:29 PM

Also you can stab twice and skip the second animation easier with dagger IMO rather than a sword or kods.

Sfactors · 02-12-2008, 06:47 PM

But you can cancel a sword swing animation by blocking.

Mad Hank · 02-12-2008, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nosedigger

Those two are separate values.

However, I'd say dagger is best. With a decent dagger, you can meleetrap fairly easily compared to butterflying. Dagger Quick Stick (and I haven't seen proof of the Sword version being able to be performed consistently) is fastest vertical climb in GunZ. Extended Lunge is fastest horizontal movement from Point A to Point B.

Dagger is bset.

<33
10char

YoshiBlood · 02-12-2008, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiedo

The delay you are referring to only measures the time between each attack. You are forgetting that the Dagger actually takes less time to complete a stab than the sword takes to complete a slash.

Someone had to quote Kiedo on that.

**Mac2492** · 02-13-2008, 01:40 AM

Daggers are faster while moving. Kodachis are faster once you start quick slashing with them. You can't walk, dash, jump, or run while quick slashing, though. You can move around all you want with a dagger and never stop stabbing.

STM1993 · 02-13-2008, 04:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiedo

The delay you are referring to only measures the time between each attack. You are forgetting that the Dagger actually takes less time to complete a stab than the sword takes to complete a slash.

Ohh I see... Thanks for the clarification!

Hymnosi · 02-13-2008, 04:36 AM

You are mistaken, and here is why.

First off, each weapon's delay is completely seperate and can only reference itself inside its own category. You cannot compare a 200 delay gun (raptor 200) to a 200ish delay sword/kodachi/dagger, much like you can't compare a 200 delay dagger with a 200 delay sword. Different weapon types, different delays, I'm actually not sure why they chose to use the actual delay value instead of a pseudo-value so that they are comparable or at least distinguishable between one another.

Second, your forgetting the fact that all of the guns stats do not take cancels into effect. Quickslash effectively reduces a good portion of the first slashes delay frames, allowing you to attack much faster than normal (coincidently, the charge animation is the ONLY animation that can reduce slash delay) making each weapon work differently.

Funny thing though, if you made a 1 delay dagger, you could only attack as fast as your finger could click the button, since there is no auto attack like guns have.

02-12-2008, 07:38 AM	#1 (permalink)
STM1993 Gunzfactorian Guardian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,126	Actual Melee Speed Actually, if you look closely at the delays of all the melee weapons (taking the best of each melee): Sword: 329 Kodachis: 260 Daggers: 346 So the melee weapon with the fastest attack speed is actually the kodachis, then the sword, then the slowest is actually the dagger. This is especially with Void Step (Quick Slash) and BF used by K-Style for swords and kodachis, which CAN be faster than dagger stabs. Then why do people say the order of speed in all melee weapons goes as follows from fastest to slowest: Dagger, Kodachis, Sword? This is because Dagger has the best dash-cancelling ability and makes you most unpredictable and more agile. You can walk around while stabbing (basically you can stab almost anytime) unlike swords or kodachis. You can stab when you are dashing, walking, jumping... and cancel out of dashes if you like. But swords and kodachis cannot do the same. They have to follow through the whole animation before they can move or dash again, while daggers can just cancel their way out. People talk about the overall speed and agility. That is why Dagger is considered the fastest weapon, while kodachis are in the middle and swords the slowest. Do you agree with me or did I make a mistake somewhere? Discuss. __________________ ~Spy_The_Man1993~ Weapon Guide in the works. To be completed: Weapon Combos, Weapon Stats, Conclusion, Credits, Final touch-ups.

02-12-2008, 07:55 AM	#3 (permalink)
STM1993 Gunzfactorian Guardian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,126	Re: Actual Melee Speed Overall speed, how fast is the weapon in terms of movement speed and attack speed o.O __________________ ~Spy_The_Man1993~ Weapon Guide in the works. To be completed: Weapon Combos, Weapon Stats, Conclusion, Credits, Final touch-ups.

02-12-2008, 02:57 PM	#5 (permalink)
Darkwolf11289 Gunzfactorian Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 191 Darkwolf11289's GamerBio	Re: Actual Melee Speed My opinion, dagger is called fastest because people think it is fast since it doesn't have the combo delay that swords and kodachi have.

02-12-2008, 03:03 PM	#6 (permalink)
TheOneX Gunzfactorian Soldier Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Jersey Posts: 863 TheOneX's GamerBio	Re: Actual Melee Speed If daggers could block it problly be slower... but. it cant ^.^ __________________ The3Jugg3rNaug7 (6:14:08 AM): Trust me. I play gunz. i know how to talk trash. ^^^ Lololololol.

02-12-2008, 03:33 PM	#7 (permalink)
Kiedo Gunzfactorian Commando Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: California Posts: 2,508 Kiedo's GamerBio	Re: Actual Melee Speed The delay you are referring to only measures the time between each attack. You are forgetting that the Dagger actually takes less time to complete a stab than the sword takes to complete a slash. __________________

02-12-2008, 06:47 PM	#10 (permalink)
Sfactors Gunzfactorian Soldier Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Gunz Posts: 523 Sfactors's GamerBio	Re: Actual Melee Speed But you can cancel a sword swing animation by blocking. __________________

02-13-2008, 01:40 AM	#13 (permalink)
Mac2492 Super Moderator Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: California Posts: 2,407	Re: Actual Melee Speed Daggers are faster while moving. Kodachis are faster once you start quick slashing with them. You can't walk, dash, jump, or run while quick slashing, though. You can move around all you want with a dagger and never stop stabbing. __________________ Mac2492 - He's good at Gunz... ...nah, just kidding. Want to know why I'm so obsessed with kodachis? Watch this replay. =) Kodachi Assortment

02-13-2008, 04:36 AM	#15 (permalink)
Hymnosi Gunzfactorian Postcount Demi-God Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Fort Knox (srsly) Posts: 8,444 Hymnosi's GamerBio	Re: Actual Melee Speed You are mistaken, and here is why. First off, each weapon's delay is completely seperate and can only reference itself inside its own category. You cannot compare a 200 delay gun (raptor 200) to a 200ish delay sword/kodachi/dagger, much like you can't compare a 200 delay dagger with a 200 delay sword. Different weapon types, different delays, I'm actually not sure why they chose to use the actual delay value instead of a pseudo-value so that they are comparable or at least distinguishable between one another. Second, your forgetting the fact that all of the guns stats do not take cancels into effect. Quickslash effectively reduces a good portion of the first slashes delay frames, allowing you to attack much faster than normal (coincidently, the charge animation is the ONLY animation that can reduce slash delay) making each weapon work differently. Funny thing though, if you made a 1 delay dagger, you could only attack as fast as your finger could click the button, since there is no auto attack like guns have.