In pursuit of happiness (Not film related)

[An Amateur]

Sorry if I misled anyone to believe this topic was film related. It's not.

This thread is about a topic that has concerned philosophers, religious figures, emotional teenagers and most of the human race at some point in their lives, throughout history. I also have had an interest in this recently.

This thread is about how we can live a good life. More specifically, how we can attain happiness.

The flow of my thoughts go something like this and these are the initial questions I wish to discuss in this thread.

What do I want out of life?
Without exception, in the case of human beings at least, the answer is happiness. That may be achieved through many other factors but that’s the overall goal we all have.
The next logical question is: how do I achieve happiness?
By fulfilling all my needs.
So, how can I define what my needs are?
I don’t have an answer to this yet. I know that a need, is not the same as a want. For example, I want to be rich. However I don’t honestly believe this is a need that, if fulfilled, would make me happy. Indeed many studies show that past the ability to meet your basic needs more money does not greatly affect happiness. So what process can we all go through to identify what our needs, in order to be happy, are?

Once I have identified my needs, how should I approach them? How can I work on achieving these needs with the best chance of success?
Again I’ll leave this open and with no real comments this time.

Other questions and issues I feel may be relevant, and/or raised at some point are:
Self-hate/Self-love How to achieve this, and how to come to terms with it.
Morals “He who knows what is good will do good” ~ Socrates. Can you be happy if you do not live by your own morals? How important is it to know your own morals in order to be happy?
There maybe others, but I’ll leave others to raise these points.

Here is a link to a blog that helped pave the way for my thinking. I disagree with it on a few points but its still though provoking.
How to be happy | Seldo.Com Blog

[slingblader]

I think if the things that you can truly look forward to out weigh the things you won't enjoy when you first wake up in the morning, you are happy.

But I can't say it applies simply day to day (obviously you're not going to be truly happy every day). More of an over all thing.

[An Amateur]

Originally Posted by slingblader

I think if the things that you can truly look forward to out weigh the things you won't enjoy when you first wake up in the morning, you are happy.

But I can't say it applies simply day to day (obviously you're not going to be truly happy every day). More of an over all thing.

I agree, I think we all know when we are happy and that we cannot be happy all the time. If what you mean by "truly happy" is "totaly happy" then I don't think thats a realistic goal. I think human nature sort of forbids such a thing because we must know unhappiness to know happiness. As our knowledge of things increase the more we have to be happy about, at the same time this increases the number of things for us to be miserable about. Therefore the only way to become totaly happy would be to achieve total knowlege (become god?), even so, we may only achieve a balance of misery and happiness.

Aside from that, what im aiming at is discussing practical ways of thinking and encoraging development of happiness for a healthy lifestyle.

[manofsparrow]

Look up hedonism. That seems somewhat close to the stuff you're talking about.

[slingblader]

I think all you need to promote happiness is learn to enjoy things. Don't live in between big moments, enjoy the in between just as much

Read "Our Town" or watch it. It offers a good perspective.

[An Amateur]

Originally Posted by manofsparrow

Look up hedonism. That seems somewhat close to the stuff you're talking about.

Yes that is very much the kind of thing im interested in, do you know of any good sources that look at this in detail? (its late now but i'll read up on it when i get some time).

I've been reading Sophies World and I've already touched on hedonism to some extent, (or at least its roots). Thats partly what prompted my line of thoughts. Many of the philisophers discussed took things to extremes, particularly rationalists. I feel that in order to answer the question "How can we live a good life?" you need to take a more pragmatist approach.

EDIT: Thanks i'll see if i can get a copy of "Our Town". I think your right to some extent, but i also believe that the answer is more complex, that thinking seems like a romantasist's perspective. "Seize the day" and all that.

[slingblader]

It's actually just a play, so you're right about the romantic sense. I'm sure philosophically and scientifically and biologically it's more complicated, but I kind liked the simple way it presented the idea.

It's actually a really simple play to. It's about just every day life, the things that every one, everywhere, and every time holds in common. His view of the after life is what gives that idea about enjoying life though.

[Mr.Lucifer]

Convince yourself you're completely happy is the only realistic way you can achieve complete happiness for the rest of your life. Lie to yourself.

Kinda what Slingblader said, "I think all you need to promote happiness is learn to enjoy things.".

But I believe most people who consider themselves happy stop and look at what they need at the moment and sets small goals. Works well too.

[An Amateur]

Originally Posted by Mr.Lucifer

Convince yourself you're completely happy is the only realistic way you can achieve complete happiness for the rest of your life. Lie to yourself.

Kinda what Slingblader said, "I think all you need to promote happiness is learn to enjoy things.".

But I believe most people who consider themselves happy stop and look at what they need at the moment and sets small goals. Works well too.

Its interesting that you consider it lying to yourself. It sounds like a very rationalistic way of thinking. Basically meaning you cannot trust the evidence of your own experience, senses, or even feelings? To me its a kind of extremism.

I agree with your last statement though. But is it the ability to identify needs and set goals that makes them happy or is it a trait of being happy, or even a self sustaining cycle? If it is a cycle how does one start the cycle if they are not in it?

It alright saying "I think that all you need is this...", but thats like saying all you need to be happy is to be happy. Enjoyment is inseperable linked with happiness. You don't get pleasure out of something and think, damn im miserable.

[slingblader]

Originally Posted by An Amateur

Its interesting that you consider it lying to yourself. It sounds like a very rationalistic way of thinking. Basically meaning you cannot trust the evidence of your own experience, senses, or even feelings? To me its a kind of extremism.

I agree with your last statement though. But is it the ability to identify needs and set goals that makes them happy or is it a trait of being happy, or even a self sustaining cycle? If it is a cycle how does one start the cycle if they are not in it?

It alright saying "I think that all you need is this...", but thats like saying all you need to be happy is to be happy. Enjoyment is inseperable linked with happiness. You don't get pleasure out of something and think, damn im miserable.

We studied this in psych, from that perspective. Their are basic needs everyone needs - survival, a sense of safety, food and shelter essentially. This things allow someone to be "content" but that no longer really applies to humans. Under that logic an abused child would be "happy." The model is based of a more regular animal kingdom though, and as far as I know humans are the only animals capable of that.

Beyond that, there is a need to belong, and a need for accomplishment and recognition. These cannot be filled before the lower levels, and it is this that allow for the happiness you're talking about (from a psych point of view).

[An Amateur]

Originally Posted by slingblader

We studied this in psych, from that perspective. Their are basic needs everyone needs - survival, a sense of safety, food and shelter essentially. This things allow someone to be "content" but that no longer really applies to humans. Under that logic an abused child would be "happy." The model is based of a more regular animal kingdom though, and as far as I know humans are the only animals capable of that.

Beyond that, there is a need to belong, and a need for accomplishment and recognition. These cannot be filled before the lower levels, and it is this that allow for the happiness you're talking about (from a psych point of view).

As far as basic needs go, what im talking about is beyond just that. But im also interested about how these are acheived in todays society? We say survival, shelter, food etc, are basic needs. In todays society does that mean its important to be wealthy? If so how much wealth would you say you need to achieve "optimal" happiness?

So a need for social contact and acceptance and for recognition for acomplishments? I can agree with that. So how does this relate to todays society, is it important to have a job? (to have a sense of accomplishments and recognition for them) Of course socialising is important for the sence of acceptance.

What about the issue of self-love/self-hate, self-confidence? I don't believe that you can be happy if you do not love yourself, although its a cliche. I suppose maybe this is where "you need to learn to just find pleasure in things" might come into the discussion.

[Mr.Lucifer]

Originally Posted by An Amateur

Its interesting that you consider it lying to yourself. It sounds like a very rationalistic way of thinking. Basically meaning you cannot trust the evidence of your own experience, senses, or even feelings? To me its a kind of extremism.

I agree with your last statement though. But is it the ability to identify needs and set goals that makes them happy or is it a trait of being happy, or even a self sustaining cycle? If it is a cycle how does one start the cycle if they are not in it?

It alright saying "I think that all you need is this...", but thats like saying all you need to be happy is to be happy. Enjoyment is inseperable linked with happiness. You don't get pleasure out of something and think, damn im miserable.

Lying might be the wrong word. But if you believe hard enough that your reality is perfect, it will be, in your head. And that is what matters, at least for me. But demanding less from life is also good enough.

So according to me living in a mental hospital but being mentally in your own, perfect world is the perfect happiness. But I would never want to live that way. Us humans want to be valuable to other people. So my happiness, as a fairly non-egosentric person, is being happy in other people's eyes at the same time as I don't have any problems in my eyes.

[An Amateur]

Originally Posted by Mr.Lucifer

Lying might be the wrong word. But if you believe hard enough that your reality is perfect, it will be, in your head. And that is what matters, at least for me. But demanding less from life is also good enough.

So according to me living in a mental hospital but being mentally in your own, perfect world is the perfect happiness.

What your describing is the same thing as a lie. No matter what you tell yourself consiously your subconcious mind would be in conflict and attempt to assert itself into your conciousness. The stonger you resist this the stronger the sub-concious tries to assert itself. In this state how could anyone be happy? This is what i understand a Freud's phychoanalysis.

Even in your personal case its still a matter of "i think", since I agree with this I was tryign to move the discussion along to the "why? how?" side of things.

[lentan]

I think being happy isn't as important as useful..

because if everyone was useful, I'd be happy XD

[An Amateur]

Originally Posted by lentan

I think being happy isn't as important as useful..

because if everyone was useful, I'd be happy XD

Yes but you classify that as important because it makes you happy. Being happy is still the overall goal for you in this case. =P