Ambiguous rockets and grenades?

[Mach-6]

Known? Not known? Not explored? shrug

So we all know Gunz is laggy and wierd things happen with this lag. Example successful leadshot. On your screen, the enemy was not actually in this position; you shot ahead of them by x distance. On their screen however, you hit them dead on.

So what happens when a rocket gets a lucky leadshot and hits the opponent dead on? Some of you have probably done this with a rocket; I've done it two or three times. What you will notice is that your rocket will travel past on your screen, and remain active as if it never hit anyone. On your opponent's screen, they got hit by the rocket, and it stops right there. Your rocket doesn't cancel though; it remains flying and will probably hit a wall.

So my question is: can two explosions occur with one rocket?

I can extend this even further by bringing in outside parties. A third player perceives different pings for both you and the unfortunate guy who somehow got hit by a rocket. I'm not sure if this is possible, but if my hypothesis is in line with reality, there's a chance he will see the rocket hit the person, and there's a chance he won't see the person get hit by the rocket. If he doesn't see that impact explosion occur, can he be affected by the secondary explosion?

I kind of want to test this out, but I need at least 2 people willing to help conduct a controlled test to see if in fact two explosions with 1 rocket can kill two people.

Grenades are even stranger. And if what I wish to be true is true, it adds a whole new dimension to using fragmentation grenades, and maybe even flash/smoke grenades.

Observe the ****ty sliding effect that ijji did with a patch some time ago. I'm not sure what it's name is (ghost lag I think? world be damned if I knew), but it's an annoying effect that screws up elunge (I think), screws up hall duels and pillars, and makes stairs and the middle of castle impossible to fight on with any modicom of mobility.

I think this sliding effect alters the possible path of grenades.


I will post a video describing the strange grenade effect later.

Aside from the fact that grenades ARE affected by my rocket postulation (ever bounce a grenade off someone?), which is already bat**** crazy in theory, I believe grenades can actually have MULTIPLE paths and destinations. One TDM, I tossed a grenade and it bounced off a corner. I thought '**** I'm an idiot' and didn't dash because I would run into it. HOWEVER, when I checked the replay later, the grenade DID NOT BOUNCE OFF THE CORNER. In fact it actually went to my intended destination, and if memory serves me correctly, people did not go near the explosion radius. What I don't know is if it was merely sheer coincidence that they weren't there in the replay, or if they actually perceived a live grenade in that area.

What I am sure of is that I have gotten some messed up kills in atk/def with grenades. On several occasions, I have tossed grenades which were not even CLOSE to anyone, but somehow in line with the grenade timing, I ****ing killed someone without even shooting or slashing. If this random grenade glitch I described up there is simply a replay bug, a simple replay bug doesn't explain this. Why does this happen? I have no idea. My theories are: replay glitch, I'm just messed up in the head, I perceive one grenade, everyone else perceives another grenade, or the most interesting possibility: everyone perceives a different grenade.

I really hope that the last case is the truth, because if it is, grenades just became a lot more interesting. Coming up with a control test that can test this is going to be much harder though.

Any takers?

[SoniK]

1 rocket can kill 2 people as long as they are different pings kk.

[Mach-6]

Originally Posted by SoniK

1 rocket can kill 2 people as long as they are different pings kk.

I kinda realized that, but I'm really interested in grenades 'splitting'.

[An Amateur]

The rockets hitting 2 or more people can be done and i assume the same is true with other weapons, rifles and shotguns.

The grenade thing though...its interesting but I dont see how it can split without another players interfearance. In other words, I imagine it may be possible to split the path of the nade if you bounce it off a laggy player. Assuming gunz is stupid enout that it does not handle such a situation, which I can believe. However as to your bouncing it off a wall, I don't see why it should work. The path of the grenade is surely fixed by the game physics untill an external force acts on it, i.e. another player.

[lentan]

erm, this works with shotguns as well, though it's probably harder to visualize compared to rockets.

I killed three people, all with pbs, with just ONE shot. 20ping, 130ping and 210ping.

And yes, it was set up...

basically, what i did was, i reloaded my shotgun, then held down click while it was reloading. Then the three people all walked into the line of fire exactly when my reload ended on THEIR screen. (they lag to me, so my firing time is different for all three of them)


The nade one is probably more difficult..
If the nade bounces off your low ping teammate on your screen, and the opponent is high ping, he will STILL see the grenade bouncing off your teammate, because both of you will do whatever you do at around the same time on HIS screen. (dist lag from you to him, and from your teammate to him is similar)

[ShadowSkullz]

Easy theory.

Player 1 USA.
Player 2 Europe.
Player 3 malasyia (200 ping).

player 1 throws grenade at player 2 while player 2 is moving.
grenade consequently passes through player 2, and if player 3 is behind player 2 and the grenade that bounced in the European lag zone went towards player 2's direction, you would have 2 hits that would not show on your screen.
The USA would only see the hit on player 2, however the hit on player 3 would still co-exist.

I've done it before. Killed one and the other went flying up, and they were traveling diff directions.

[Bolten]

the way it works is every time anyone in the room does something everyone in the room sees it at a time dependent on the ping, so if you had two Americans and one Australian, the American and Australian fought, and you shot a rocket well timed towards one, it may go past and end up hitting BOTH, because the American sees the Australian at a different location so the rocket will miss, but the Australian sees it hitting.

The same thing as above happens to EVERYTHING, nades being created, people moving, gunfire, explosions, attacking ect. This means its quite possible to, say, blow up an entire shower room with 1 grenade. if people with all different pings were to enter a shower room, theres an incredibly small almost non existent chance the nade would "bounce" off all the players by passing through previous ones so "technically" the explosion will hit everywhere on the map, though each person only sees one explosion at a different area.

and just so you know I've known about this for a long time, and have looked into it a bit. It's caused because the games client sided as well as peer2peer.

[Mach-6]

Sweet.

The first two theories, splitting rocket/grenade is generally accepted it seems. Which is great, because it lends credibility to what I'm really interested in.

which is if it's possible to create effective grenade explosions without an outside direct source i.e. not bouncing grenades off people. My suspicions are that it's just a replay bug. However, maybe the way a player perceives you and your ping will change how a grenade is thrown for them?

[Mach-6]

Just tested.

The moment that player joined, my grenades where they landed for me were not anywhere NEAR where the replay showed them.

O__O

What I need know is a controlled test with someone else (maybe more than one) to see if this explosion is not just the result of a replay bug. I need 3 tests I think to sort this out.

1. I throw a grenade, I chase my grenade and stand on it, the other player follows where the grenade goes and stands on it.
2. I throw a grenade, I chase my grenade and stand on it, other player follows me and stands next to me.
3. I throw a grenade, I follow other player and stand next to him, other player chases grenade and stands on it.

Anyone? I'm on CW NA idling in training right now.

[omgimkool]

wow a wall of text *** that noob

[SoniK]

Originally Posted by omgimkool

wow a wall of text *** that noob

actually with with 4th grade reading skillz you can read all of that.


















































nvm u dont have good schools so when ur 34 u can read all of that

[Huopatossu]

I've done this a few times before. It must be quite interesting for the one who got hit by a rocket, as he sees someone probably get killed with nothing in sight.

[KnightSnipe]

Yeah, this is interesting. The fact that it's possible to have two explosions at once isn't hard at all to believe.

But yes, splitting gernades is interesting as well.

[Mach-6]

Judging from the one replay view and lack of posts, I'm guessing everyone is not interested.

I really want to test grenade splitting =(

[Joale]

Its not too hard to figure out really, especially with the way gunz is set up. Though the fact that this bug exists, doesn't make it entirely useful, unless you're a genius who can calculate lead shots for lag for multiple targets at once AND aim at the same time. If that were the case you'd be a rocket and grenade pro.

Grenades are my specialty though and I've seen many many wierd events that occur with nades. I've had nades that hit people who aren't even remotely close to my visual landing zone of the nade, so the nade splitting theory is easily plausible. If someone with the same ping as another person merely stepped in its path and deflected it on their screen and the grenade followed the original path on mine then it would clear up alot of akward kills that I've experienced.